OrtleyBeach35

What makes a GREAT plug ? Where’s the data

113 posts in this topic

14 hours ago, OrtleyBeach35 said:

 That's pretty easy..... You see Titleist invests millions of dollars to perfect club distance, accuracy, sound... with a prediction model of a golf swing help your type of swing and recommend what club works best for you... called club fitting (aka Data investment)... If you don't care about this kinda of stuff... buy the knockoff, buy the cheap plug.. I'm all in favor for buying the next best plug if it catches fish, heck even if it looks cool....

 

Just like buying a $50 plug... does it swim better (faster/slower), does it rattle, thru wire, ... all things that improve catch ratio.

 

 

 

Didn't think a PLUG question could lead us to this... Pray for us..

 

You can't compare Titleist with a plug maker?  Most of these plug makers are at home in the cellar turning them on a lathe. They don't make Millions.  Thats why you see a lot of them come and go?  They don't have millions to perfect Distance, accuracy and sound.  

Like Bugs Benny said, people catch record size fish on cheap rods, reels and plugs . Its how much conference you have it the plug and knowing how to make it work and knowing where to put it, in the area your fishing.  I have seen guys catch fish with a old type can opener with a hook on it. I have seen a video of a guy catch a fish on an old beach sandal. 

Some one else said a fifty dollar plug catches a fifty pound fish?  Well I haven seen a 100 plug catch a hundred fish.  Not in Stripers anyway. 

How many times do you hear someone say I love this plug and its sitting in the bottom of your plug bag and you don't even use it?  My Grandfather always said  EVERY POT HAS IT OWN COVER. 

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On 3/12/2018 at 8:26 AM, OrtleyBeach35 said:

So the analytical side of me was wondering? With all the custom plugs I see, why does no one share the following information?

1. Type of wood they use?

2. Sink rate if applicable?

3. Best time to use? Day/dusk/ night?

4. Best used for? Big surf, sweep, flat conditions?

5. Best imitates? What baitfish?

there is so much more....

 

so so why spend $25 or a lot more without good data to support... if these catch BIG fish, why not share what you’ve researched to improve your catch ratio?

 

just wondering....

it's in my head, it's called experience....

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19 hours ago, OrtleyBeach35 said:

umm no....I'll keep it simple for you.

He answered my question about specs about PLUGS...

Catch Ratio requires someone that has completed such analysis.

... leave the scientific stuff to us fisherman that actually are interested in this kind of stuff...

I'll fill you in when I complete my analysis and study.

 

My apologies, should have not referred to as an "arse"!  Must of stepped off the wrong side of the bed yesterday.  When you finish your scientific analysis on catch ratio, you may change the whole complexion of the custom plug market.  In the meantime, I will continue to fish plugs that have worked for me over the last 40+ years and occasionally add a new one when warranted.

 

Good luck in the game.

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On 3/12/2018 at 8:26 AM, OrtleyBeach35 said:

So the analytical side of me was wondering? With all the custom plugs I see, why does no one share the following information?

1. Type of wood they use?

2. Sink rate if applicable?

3. Best time to use? Day/dusk/ night?

4. Best used for? Big surf, sweep, flat conditions?

5. Best imitates? What baitfish?

there is so much more....

 

so so why spend $25 or a lot more without good data to support... if these catch BIG fish, why not share what you’ve researched to improve your catch ratio?

 

just wondering....

 

 

The analytical side of you should know that fishing is not an exact science.  It is not finite math as much as our internet-coddled, instant cast gratification addicted minds would love for it to be.  

 

Most of the info info you are asking for is already available.  Also anybody spending $25+ on a bait is likely fully aware of why they’re doing it.  Their reasoning may not correspond to something you agree with and that’s fine too.  

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Way too much stuff in the bag to start analyzing one plug beyond, "does it have action of some sort". I assume we are talking about plugs we see at the shows nd on the walls in tackle shops, all with names familiar to us. RM , Habs, GRS , Big Rock, etc. Why not just ask those makers how it's intended to be fished, and what success they have had with it ?

It's fishing. They don't think, they react. Sometime I believe we ascribe all sorts of human qualities to them.

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"...Most of the info info you are asking for is already available..."

 

Now that I know that the above is true, my curiosity has been piqued.  Having worked in analytics for some 30 years, I couldn't figure out a source for a critical set of input data.  (Call me dumber than I look.)  

 

Please do share with us the source(s) for catch data.  If you could provide a single, unified data file, we will appreciate it.

 

 

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First of all - this may be the lamest thread I've ever read here ( and there have been same lame ones ), but i'll bite for the sake of the unknowing.

 

1. Type of wood they use? - Every builder i know tells anyone who asks.

2. Sink rate if applicable? - Every builder i know tells anyone who asks.

3. Best time to use? Day/dusk/ night? - If you can't figure this one out for yourself well......get out and fish.

4. Best used for? Big surf, sweep, flat conditions? - If you can't figure this one out for yourself well......get out and fish.

5. Best imitates? What baitfish? - If you can't figure this one out for yourself well......get out and fish.

As far as data investment and catch ratio data - we're talking about a 30 plug here not a lexus.  The day this is a deciding factor i'm done building(except for myself and close buds )

A great plug IMO is one that performs exactly how the builder intends it to, catches fish of course ( half the load is on the fisherman ), is very well constructed and holds up to the conditions we use them in ( ie finish not coming off during 1st or 2nd outing ).

And that's all I've got to say about that

Good fishing

                         

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While I may not have the experience of some on this site, the one thing I’ve realized in fishing is that the only rule, the only constant, is that there are no rules. Everyone understands the concept that a black or blurple plug is designed to produce at night. Then, you see someone catch fish on one in broad daylight. Much like the sandal comment, you see videos of folks catching fish on old beat up plugs with no paint, no eyes, just an old piece of dented wood with a hook. 

 

That being said,  I think we can all agree that you have to have confidence in your lure. Now, how someone gains confidence in a lure can vary widely from fisherman to fisherman.  If it comes from your own prior experience with the plug, great. If it come from reports of other fishermen having good results with the product, great. But for some, it may require a more scientific analysis to achieve that confidence. What’s wrong with that?

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47 mins ago, cartopper said:

My apologies, should have not referred to as an "arse"!  Must of stepped off the wrong side of the bed yesterday.  When you finish your scientific analysis on catch ratio, you may change the whole complexion of the custom plug market.  In the meantime, I will continue to fish plugs that have worked for me over the last 40+ years and occasionally add a new one when warranted.

 

Good luck in the game.

Apology accepted...

Never thought a question about a Plugs Greatness would quiver such a debate.

... and I agree, I fish what works. I experiment based on previous experience with other plugs..

I guess my point was, sure I can ask the builder? I have, I was just wondering why no one PUBLISHES it.

and for those guys out there that know everything... keep thinking that, when you think the smartest in the room the game is over.

I come here to learn from SMART fisherman, people who challenge the status quo and actually give me sound, logical (Scientific or not) advice. I take it and learn from it....

 

as for Afterhours.... too bad you will not be one of those guys I take advice from... You already are the SMART one in the room...

....sorry for the lame thread, b/c without a thread like this... people won't ask you crap about your PLUGS, what you use, it's shape, design, color choice, movement, sink rate.... ect... good luck and happy plug building

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52 mins ago, afterhours said:

First of all - this may be the lamest thread I've ever read here ( and there have been same lame ones ), but i'll bite for the sake of the unknowing.

 

1. Type of wood they use? - Every builder i know tells anyone who asks.

2. Sink rate if applicable? - Every builder i know tells anyone who asks.

3. Best time to use? Day/dusk/ night? - If you can't figure this one out for yourself well......get out and fish.

4. Best used for? Big surf, sweep, flat conditions? - If you can't figure this one out for yourself well......get out and fish.

5. Best imitates? What baitfish? - If you can't figure this one out for yourself well......get out and fish.

As far as data investment and catch ratio data - we're talking about a 30 plug here not a lexus.  The day this is a deciding factor i'm done building(except for myself and close buds )

A great plug IMO is one that performs exactly how the builder intends it to, catches fish of course ( half the load is on the fisherman ), is very well constructed and holds up to the conditions we use them in ( ie finish not coming off during 1st or 2nd outing ).

And that's all I've got to say about that

Good fishing

                         

 

 

This exactly.  The top two are listed by literally every builder ever and the rest are inherent in the type of plug and the color. 

 

“Catch stats” is simply a synonym for experience, and there’s only one way to get that.  Results WILL vary!  

 

Seemed to me as though the underlying implied beef is that for $30 the builder should be able to hand you a brochure with excel spreadsheets and charts/graphs with mapped probabilities organized by species, season, water and ambient temps, pressure, moon cycles, tide direction and strength, color variations and fisherman abilities.  That might be the most ridiculous thing imaginable.  What a wild thing to even allow yourself to feel let alone articulate in a public forum haha

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17 mins ago, MagicMatt3R5 said:

 

 

This exactly.  The top two are listed by literally every builder ever and the rest are inherent in the type of plug and the color. 

 

“Catch stats” is simply a synonym for experience, and there’s only one way to get that.  Results WILL vary!  

 

Seemed to me as though the underlying implied beef is that for $30 the builder should be able to hand you a brochure with excel spreadsheets and charts/graphs with mapped probabilities organized by species, season, water and ambient temps, pressure, moon cycles, tide direction and strength, color variations and fisherman abilities.  That might be the most ridiculous thing imaginable.  What a wild thing to even allow yourself to feel let alone articulate in a public forum haha

No brochure required, I don't fish Strengths or tide direction... it's called CURRENT, incoming or dropping tides... now that's ridiculous, and you did articulate that in a public forum... Tight lines magic mike.

Stick around and keep coming back... it's gets better.

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1 hour ago, afterhours said:

First of all - this may be the lamest thread I've ever read here ( and there have been same lame ones ), but i'll bite for the sake of the unknowing.

 

1. Type of wood they use? - Every builder i know tells anyone who asks.

2. Sink rate if applicable? - Every builder i know tells anyone who asks.

3. Best time to use? Day/dusk/ night? - If you can't figure this one out for yourself well......get out and fish.

4. Best used for? Big surf, sweep, flat conditions? - If you can't figure this one out for yourself well......get out and fish.

5. Best imitates? What baitfish? - If you can't figure this one out for yourself well......get out and fish.

As far as data investment and catch ratio data - we're talking about a 30 plug here not a lexus.  The day this is a deciding factor i'm done building(except for myself and close buds )

A great plug IMO is one that performs exactly how the builder intends it to, catches fish of course ( half the load is on the fisherman ), is very well constructed and holds up to the conditions we use them in ( ie finish not coming off during 1st or 2nd outing ).

And that's all I've got to say about that

Good fishing

                         

i'm not so sure about that. the eel handling device and touch paint threads are pretty close...

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How should these plugs be stored in between use? I have some felt sleeves to keep them shiny and separated so they don't bang against each other.

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4 mins ago, MitchellNJ said:

How should these plugs be stored in between use? I have some felt sleeves to keep them shiny and separated so they don't bang against each other.

felt lined solid gold box

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