ccb

100’ cast

45 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, mkus said:

Makes a big difference if your casting a sinking or floating line I have sinking lines that are 110ft long I shoot them out consistently from shore usually albie fishing and it makes a big difference on some days catching them when they're out a bit farther and not showing.

floating lines I overload the rod and can do the same but they are a bit harder in a stiff wind because of diameter..

i never use a floating line for stripers ever. 

 

and line speed is not about the amount of line you carry, but the timing and nature of the double haul, water haul or single haul.

 

as Mkus noted above, intermediates and sinking lines are much easier to shoot. I use a water haul and then just one haul on the forward move and i fire it out.

 

too many false casts and aerializing too much line is very tiring when you're fishing 14 hour days on the Cape. 

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It was early june for me 1996 on a certain beach on the vineyard the bigger bass were out a little further it took a 130 ft cast to reach them intermediate head and mono running line did the trick that was one of few times needed greater than 100 try feeding line into your drift on the backcast

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Depends on the line and which way the wind is blowing.

 

Sometimes casting far is a great arrow to have in your quiver. For BFT fishing that I do, that is often an arrow that is a must to even have a shot at the wary fish. In addition one needs to make that hero shot fast and quite accurately from a rocking boat that can be also decelerating at the same time. The captain positions the boat so that you are casting even slightly downwind.

 

Casting 100' into any real headwind on normal single haded fly fishing gear is pretty much a no go. I'm not a world champion caster on that, but not too far either.

 

Also, 100' of line out is not 100' cast. It is surprising how much slack there usually is on a cast (unless cast formidable downwind that really can straighten the line quite well).

 

It is great asset to be able to cast far as long as one understads that one doesn't have to if the fishing doesn't really require it.

 

Usually the people who say that one doesn't need to be able to cast far don't do fishing where one needs to cast far and/or they cannot cast far.

 

From purely mathematical point of view ify our max goes from 60' to 100', your coverage increases by a factor of 2.8.

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Almost everybody doesn't practice their fly casting. You're not going to get much better unless you do, no matter what new technique you learn or what you are told for "improving your casting". If you fish a lot you can improve somewhat. The combination of practice and fishing REALLY makes you improve. 

 

Most people will tell me what they're doing wrong, or what they have to change or improve in their casting, before I do a lesson with them. Guess how many were accurate in their assesment? What percentage? ZERO. In 35 years of lessons, not ONE person could tell me beforehand what their ACTUAL casting problem was! If they told me it was something, it wasn't, it was always something else.

 

You REALLY want to improve? Have a CHANCE at those great distances? Get instruction from a TRULY great flycaster! Not a certified FFF instructor, or any ole fly shop worker, or the best guy on the beach, or at your marina, or a club member who everyone looks up to, or even almost all the guides. Even most people casting at the Shows today too.  I mean, if you REALLY want to get those big distances find a GREAT fly caster! They are few and far between, and you can tell how good they are because when you witness their casting it's WAY beyond everyone else's. It's THAT noticeable. They're THAT much better. All the best teachers I've come across (ESPECIALLY for casting distance) are unusually great flycasters. 

 

Also, don't go by the too often repeated, "great distance casting people aren't that accurate". Accuracy takes a LOT of physical control. Great distance takes A LOT MORE! That's why you have many more casters who are relatively accurate, compared with those of the latter. The TRULY long tossers are unbelievably accurate. 

 

Marco

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44 mins ago, No Bull S said:

Get instruction from a TRULY great flycaster! Not a certified FFF instructor, or any ole fly shop worker, or the best guy on the beach, or at your marina, or a club member who everyone looks up to, or even almost all the guides. Even most people casting at the Shows today too.  I mean, if you REALLY want to get those big distances find a GREAT fly caster! They are few and far between ...

Surely you're not saying that any of those people you've listed can't be great casters? Having certification from the FFi doesn't preclude the instructor from also being a great caster. I will absolutely admit the certification does not tell you if the instructor is a great caster. I personally know a few CCIs who can't reach 100', but I know many more who can hit 110' using a 5wt MED line without too much trouble.

 

I also know a (select) few guys who can hit 120' easily with a 10wt line but have no idea how to teach what they do. If those guys gave someone a lesson, the student would never reach 100'.

 

The trick is to find a truly great caster who can also explain how it's done. It doesn't matter who that is or if they hold some sort of certification. But please don't tar all instructors with that brush Mark. You know it's not true.

 

Cheers,

Graeme

 

(For what it's worth, the CCI exam only tests the candidate's ability to cast to 75'. The MCI exam is only to 85' but the candidate needs to "make it look easy" or they'll fail. You're right to point out the CCI may not be a great caster, but it certainly doesn't mean they can't easily hit 120'. They just haven't been asked to do that to achieve CCI or MCI level.)

Edited by Hirdy

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A great caster may be a horrible instructor. You would not believe how much BS I have heard at world championships of casting. Of course it is not that much, but at that venue one would think there would not be any.

 

The thing is that you can train and become a great caster and have the basis all wrong. As it is so that one thinks he/she is doing something when actually doing something else. Feel screws up lot of stuff. Another pair trained eyes and/or video can tell a whole another story. You must understand the correct pairs of causes and effects. Without knowledge (not belief) it can go haywire. The best is if one understands the physics behind.

 

A certified INSTRUCTOR has been assessed that he/she can teach. Of course there are better and worse ones. And you really learn teaching by teaching. I do not count myself as a competent instructor, but I know how to  cast a line, be it overhead or spey and SH or TH rod.

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The correct approach to casting 100' + is to choose a line and rod that's up to the task . My favorite rod to 100' was a G Loomis GL 3 #9  , 9' rod . A 100' cast can be made time n time again if u understand what combo of lines & techniques get it done .

The simplest is using a SST , the length depends on ur rod and how good a caster u are. With the aforementioned Rod and 30' # 11 head and braided mono shooting line a 100' cast is realatively simple . The most important factor is timing to load the rod fully , this is accomplished by water haul or a simple roll cast for heads .

WF lines I tend to carry more line in the air , however I also water haul a lot more line to fully load Rod and deliver on one back,cast . The more line u can aerilze using this method the simpler @ 100' cast becomes 

with the head set up a 100' cast is nothing , what detracts is size of fly , wind and position on land or boat .

This cast the lift begins with a solid knee initiated water haul , this loads rod with 50 or 60' of line ripped off the water , the Rod is now loaded and a single haul is all that's needed to cast .

I also,achieve solid distance with my series of G Loomis Megas 7/8 , 9/10 & so on they very in lengths from 8.5 to 9' feet 

U cannot expect one line set up on ur Rod to be the best , there only guidelines , if u experiment with a variety of combinations one will stand out that matches ur stoke and power .

i had the opportunity to cast n fish with a couple of really world class casters foe many years at my former job and believe me it took me several years and tons of daily practices tp fully understand the machinics of the distance cast .

Mel Kreiger taught me the how to improve my stroke while Steve Rajeff  helped me achieve my goals of a 200' plus cast , on the lawn and made a 100' to 150' cast an everyday occurrence , in fact most 100' casts I single haul . 

Its all in how ur outfit is set up , my guess if ur having difficulty this maybe the cause , if ur a relatively decent caster .

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Capt. Lou said:

The correct approach to casting 100' + is to choose a line and rod that's up to the task . My favorite rod to 100' was a G Loomis GL 3 #9  , 9' rod . A 100' cast can be made time n time again if u understand what combo of lines & techniques get it done .

The simplest is using a SST , the length depends on ur rod and how good a caster u are. With the aforementioned Rod and 30' # 11 head and braided mono shooting line a 100' cast is realatively simple . The most important factor is timing to load the rod fully , this is accomplished by water haul or a simple roll cast for heads .

WF lines I tend to carry more line in the air , however I also water haul a lot more line to fully load Rod and deliver on one back,cast . The more line u can aerilze using this method the simpler @ 100' cast becomes 

with the head set up a 100' cast is nothing , what detracts is size of fly , wind and position on land or boat .

This cast the lift begins with a solid knee initiated water haul , this loads rod with 50 or 60' of line ripped off the water , the Rod is now loaded and a single haul is all that's needed to cast .

I also,achieve solid distance with my series of G Loomis Megas 7/8 , 9/10 & so on they very in lengths from 8.5 to 9' feet 

U cannot expect one line set up on ur Rod to be the best , there only guidelines , if u experiment with a variety of combinations one will stand out that matches ur stoke and power .

i had the opportunity to cast n fish with a couple of really world class casters foe many years at my former job and believe me it took me several years and tons of daily practices tp fully understand the machinics of the distance cast .

Mel Kreiger taught me the how to improve my stroke while Steve Rajeff  helped me achieve my goals of a 200' plus cast , on the lawn and made a 100' to 150' cast an everyday occurrence , in fact most 100' casts I single haul . 

Its all in how ur outfit is set up , my guess if ur having difficulty this maybe the cause , if ur a relatively decent caster .

 

 

 

Please, I don't understand water hauling? Do you let the line land to water behind you before the forward cast?

 

Esa

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Esa,

 

I believe what he means by water hauling is using the water's surface tension to more deeply load the rod as you're pulling the rod backwards for a backcast. Correct me if I'm wrong Capt. Lou but that is my understanding both from your post and from my own personal experience as I have felt it myself when I'm on the water.

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12 hours ago, Aquacide said:

i never use a floating line for stripers ever. 

 

and line speed is not about the amount of line you carry, but the timing and nature of the double haul, water haul or single haul.

 

as Mkus noted above, intermediates and sinking lines are much easier to shoot. I use a water haul and then just one haul on the forward move and i fire it out.

 

too many false casts and aerializing too much line is very tiring when you're fishing 14 hour days on the Cape. 

i don’t use a floating line too much either but I love spring top water stripers on poppers only time I really use a floater 

nothing like catching a 40”+ bass on top!!!

B5A467E6-3116-479E-93DC-6B43145800FE.png

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Water haul relates to dragging the line off the water from in front of you for WF lines , the longer length of a WF line u can lift off the water the longer cast u can achieve by utilizing one back stroke initiating a double haul stroke on forward cast . Utilizing loading just ur forward taper will require more strokes to load n cast .

picking up as much line as u can loads Rod muck quicker , this technique I taught myself tarpon fishing where u may require a quick,representation of ur fly as fish swim past .

water haul can be initiated on back,stoke as we'll although the ur line speed will be compromised since u may not completely load ur Rod unless u can manage enough line in haul to overcome this aspect .

These techniques require a basic  understanding of loading the rod with proper / line n head . This is casting that requires a little more energy to push the line those distances . 

Many go to two hand rods , I'm not a fan I like single hands most can be cast two handed if I desire . I like fighting my fish on lightest outfit possible and even when plugged into a tight spot I can handle handle most .

Western rivers that are much larger these rods can help a average caster get more distance much easier but just not for me . 

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Water haul is normally defined as pulling the line off the water and delivering 180° from that direction with no other casts. For example, deliberately dropping the line on the back cast and then pulling it off the water for the front cast, using water tension to "load" the rod more than the weight of the line alone would.

 

Capt. Lou is describing a long line lift, which is very useful and well worth doing. It could be classed as a water haul for the back cast, especially if shooting line into the back cast.

 

Cheers,

Graeme

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Casting threads are funny. There seems to be a very specific pattern to them:). 

 

Trying to be as good as you can is a pretty standard thing in any sport. A good fly fisherman needs to be a good caster. An excellent one needs to be a excellent caster. If you don't believe that your only fooling yourself. 

 

In a fishing situation where your sight casting for fast moving fish or doing fast action fishing like albie or tuna fishing for surface eating fish, a real 100ft where the fly actually lands 100ft from you is not a cast very many can do on a regular basis. and that's with a side wind or in calm conditions. IN to the wind that's pretty much not likely to happen even for the best. If your blind casting on a pretty stationary platform or have time to get a good cast your odds will be a lot higher to hitting that 100' mark.

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18 hours ago, Hirdy said:

Water haul is normally defined as pulling the line off the water and delivering 180° from that direction with no other casts. For example, deliberately dropping the line on the back cast and then pulling it off the water for the front cast, using water tension to "load" the rod more than the weight of the line alone would.

 

Capt. Lou is describing a long line lift, which is very useful and well worth doing. It could be classed as a water haul for the back cast, especially if shooting line into the back cast.

 

Cheers,

Graeme

Long line lift is a great way to get your fly right back there. Lines with at least a medium length belly or a long backtaper work the best for this. The water haul or slingshot cast as i call it is very handy when you have cast in to a certain direction but a strong tail or casting arm wind prevents you to do a normal cast. You can just anchor the leader and the tip of the line to the water and do a safe forward cast. Works great with super heavy flies also as the line trajectory is high and safe going forward. 

 

Don't actually know why I quoted you Hirdy. You probably know a lot more about these things then i do:)

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I know guys that can consistently cast 100ft on the lawn, hell i can cast a consistent 90ft on the lawn and occasionally from the boat deck, never while wading, I don't need to mark the line i know if i cast into the backing on my intermediate its 90ft plus the leader, When i worked many years ago at Orvis in Greenvale, NY i would see many guys cast from the beginner to the intermediate to the advanced, guys that no doubt could cast the whole line, NEVER have i seen someone cast like Mark (NoBullS) what i did notice is that many of his casts gain elevation, hard to explain but the loop forms an arrowhead shape and planes upwards sometimes over the Sleepy's building that was next door. WFF, WFInt. Shooting heads etc..   seriously, so far beyond what a great caster achieves its ridiculous go to the shows or take a lesson, watch him cast, then pick your jaw up off the ground

Edited by Sandflee

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