salvadore33

Should i use a 10 wt fly line on my 9wt rod?

35 posts in this topic

I'm sorry ... it all depends on the line and how the weight is distributed along the head section. One to the best casting lines available still is the Wulff Triangular Taper WFF Bass fly line. It has a 28 foot head section ...which is relatively short. Next many would say the Wulff Tri-taper Bermuda WFI sink tip is their all time favorite fly line. It has a 30 ft head section. Most of the Wulff Saltwater lines have a 30 foot head section and perform very well, IMHO.

 

I agree ... the RIO Outbound Short lines seem to have too much weight in their 30 foot tapers ... they tend to dump or are just awkward to cast as compared to the standard Rio OB lines which have a 36 to 40 ft taper, I believe.

 

And so much depends on the fly rod's action along with the caster's ability to make a great / effortless cast. So the moral of the story is ... please match the fly line (taper design & grain weight) to the type of fly rod the fisherman is using... and his or hers ability to shoot some line.

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KironaFly

 

I would agree key to this discussion is the ability of the Caster.

When  it comes to rods the rod is not able to differentiate between short or long heads only mass.

Providing  a good cast is made how the fly line performs will  be dependant on its head length and profile and weight distribution. Plus what size and weight of fly is being cast and also relative to the wind direction.

The rods action has no influence on how the line performs.

 

Mike

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14 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

KironaFly

 

I would agree key to this discussion is the ability of the Caster.

When  it comes to rods the rod is not able to differentiate between short or long heads only mass.

Providing  a good cast is made how the fly line performs will  be dependant on its head length and profile and weight distribution. Plus what size and weight of fly is being cast and also relative to the wind direction.

The rods action has no influence on how the line performs.

 

Mike

Mike when you say “ The rods action has no influence on how the line performs” are talking about all rods generally speaking ? Or the rods posted in this thread ?

thanks Chuck 

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Mike,

      Can I have all your short head lines that are "gathering dust".

 

      And, needless to say, have an opposite opinion with most everything that was said above about short head (down to 30') vrs long head lines.  But then, you all knew that, right?

Edited by Peter Patricelli

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4 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

Chuck generally. It is mass that has the biggest effect on a rod. 

 

Mike

I'm understanding it completely now 

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Peter in a word in a kindly way no.

Reason being in spite of what may seem to many as my intractable ways and sheer bloody mindlessness  I am able to change my opinion , position or except new info and therefore may need at some stage to dig out these short head over heavy to .AAFTM stds and give them another twirl.

Although partly due to these tiresome personality traits I do feel a tad mean as it is unlikely I am going to ever enjoy casting or fishing from shore these short as in 30 or sub 30 feet headed lines. So they will sadly probably go from being covered in dust to  turning to dust.  It maybe me who turns to dust before they do. LOL

 

Mike

 

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44 mins ago, ccb said:

Turn to dust? did someone say dust? 

Yep!  Dust was said!  A Body Turns to Dust and only the bones remain.  Some time ago whilst attending St. Agustine's Grade School, and as an Altar Boy every time we had a funeral

Some where during the Mass Father O'Connell would say "Dust to Dust" as he readied the Dear Departed's Soul for the Joys of Heaven or the terror of Hell!

 

I'm betting Mike O and Peter Pat end up in the same place.   I'm betting it's the warm one!  Who'se betting for the cool place where the streets are guarded by United States Marines.

 

ccb when you show up  I'll probably be the Sgt. of the Guard!  What tour would like? The Mid watch?  or 0400 to 0800?  Bring a Gloomis short stick 10 wt for me to practice on an I'll gauarntee you will never have to pull a Guard Tour on  a weekend!  :howdy:

Edited by RJ

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I think you have a sure bet. Merry Christmas RJ and to the rest of you guys.  happy holidays to all.

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I don't understand why this thread went the way it did.  The OP wanted to know about uplining.  The answer that I support is to try it out versus using the "correctly rated" line. 

 

Re: the off topic issue added to this thread - the short head lines are not all as overweight as the Rio OB.  If you didn't know that Rio OB lines are at least 2 lines heavy then you might think they stink when in fact they are just damn heavy for their rating.  The aforementioned Wulff lines and some scientific angler lines are not as heavily overweighted (for the same line weight designation).

 

Head lengths and weights are both variable based on manufacturer philosophy, and the intended purposes of each line.  Short head lines DO have their purposes.   If you don't like short head lines at all it could be because they are not the best type of line for the kind of fishing you most often try or do.  You don't like them but it's not their fault.  The lines are simply designed for another kind of fishing situation that you do not generally do, period.

 

Mike can keep his Rio OB lines from my perspective - I don't want them - not because they are too short, but because I don't like the way Rio lines are manufactured (nasty smelly chemicals, PVC and plasticizers, also they wear out too fast compared to Airflo or Wulff lines).  Please dispose properly Mike before they turn to dust, as they are actually quite toxic.  ;  )

 

The best way to "salvage" a short head line  (either one that is overweight  or not overweight) in my opinion, so that it doesn't turn to dust is to use it in places where only a short head line works best - which might include steep beaches or places where a long backcast is not possible (other examples would be a stand of trees behind you or a jetty with people on it). 

 

Another way to "salvage" a short head line that is not too heavy for your rod but seems too short for your casting technique or the casting situation is to add a polyleader of around 5 feet (single hand rod) or 10' (two hand beach rod).   In that case you might actually want to use a short head line that is around one line weight down from your normally selected weight if your intent is to overhead cast it.  Airflo polyleaders are made for salmon, general saltwater use, and even tarpon.  The added length is enough to stop some short head lines from "dumping" and can make the delivery a bit more delicate, if not perfectly so - try one and see.   YMMV.

Edited by Killiefish
fix grammar

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Killiefish

Threads do wonder at times. Some times  for the better sometimes not.

I think on balance there has been some added value to the OP as he will have now views on various lines rather than just what should he do go one up or stay with a 9. I agree with your reply to try out both and see what works.

Ok I am not a great fan of Short Head  lines to std or over std specs as you already know. But  I also agree that there are situations where they are useful especially ones which are two lines up. Whilst these SH are not great for casting into a head wind that’s reasonable they could be a boon when casting into a very heavy head wind where a long belly Line  to std AAFTM spec just can’t cut it. The heavier head has more chance to get through the wind. Ok your not going to shoot anyline it’s going to be 30 foot or less but often in those  conditions it can be enough.

Joking aside how should we dispose of PVC fly ines responsibly?. I have one or two which are shot and need to go. Been a lot of them made over the past 40 years or so.

 

Mike

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Posted (edited)

19 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

...

Joking aside how should we dispose of PVC fly ines responsibly?. I have one or two which are shot and need to go. Been a lot of them made over the past 40 years or so.

 

Mike

It's a good question and the answer might differ on your side of the pond.  All plastics are now a problem here in the USA now that China has refused to accept our waste for "recycling."  Probably better anyway as they just made new toxic products to sell back to us.   PVC is a known carcinogen.  Plasticizers are used to soften plastic to make it more pliable - but also it degrades faster.  Plasticizers are generally not safe for human ingestion or prolonged exposure (whether by air or physical contact).

 

I treat my Rio and other PVC-based lines with care by storing them inside separate ziplock bags.  This is partly to keep the outgassing of chemicals and (suspected) plasticizers in these lines (ever wonder what "Agent X" is?)  from softening up other lines in the box I store my lines.  My Airflo lines and some other lines I suspect are not PVC based I just keep in their boxes.  I intend to no longer purchase any lines I believe are PVC based.  Airflo is the only company I know that is committed to eliminating (over time) the toxic waste products typically used in fly lines.  BTW the softening of lines can add to the separation and cracking problems some have experienced.  The coating of the lines is softer than the core due to PVC composition and plasticizers and over time gets even softer in some lines, leading to separation of coating and core, while others may dry out and crack.

 

You may be able to take older useless lines to your local waste treatment center (or whatever civic program you have to divert waste from the garbage dump) and ask them what to do with them.  At least IMO keep them in a separate ziplock (airtight) plastic bag when you store them and later on keep them in that sealed bag when you toss them IMO is a minimum.  BTW the smell of these lines alone can sometimes  identify them as actually or potentially toxic.  It's the same smell that you can observe in a new PVC based shower curtain - also a toxic mess.

Edited by Killiefish

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A commonly used plasticizer is Bisphenol-A and there are probably several similar chemicals.  Google Bisphenol-A or "plasticizers" and "toxicity".

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Personally I do use short heads, but generally for waterborne anchor cast (speys including skagit casting etc). I could see overhead where you have, but only limited back cast space. Or storm winds and you are casting downwind.

 

When it comes to Airflo, the idea of urethane line is great. And their sub-surface lines are great (when they are not made with the terrible ridge technology). The problem is that the floaters tend to have terrible memory and feel really hard and have this dry feel to them. The only exception I have met is the old (pre-ridge) bonefish line. And Airflo doesn't seem to stick with AFFTA at all. Most problems of all makers with bad cores in the low stretch lines I have come across.

Would be nice if Airflo made great lines all across the field - would not need PVC lines then.

 

Rio - I love the Leviathan. Their AFS shooting heads are good. Windcutters are ok, but I am not a big fan of the taper. Some problems with low stretch lines in skagit lines (fortunately I use the pieces to make competition casting lines and not fishing).

 

SA - mostly great lines. They could have also skipped the sharkskin too thou.

 

Btw, Monic isn't PVC either.

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