rosbertos

Savage 99...restore it or leave it be?

44 posts in this topic

Looking through the current Savage website, they have plenty of .22 rifles that use rotary magazines. I wonder what it is about rotary magazines in more substantial chamberings that made it too difficult for Mannlicher-Schoenaer and Savage to continue using them?  I suspect that flat magazines are easier to make from stamped metal components, whereas rotary magazines may need some machining.  And that brings me back to additive manufacturing, but the technology is so new that I'm sure no engineer knowledgeable in that process has bothered to look over this design, or the Winchester 21, or any other classic-but-discontinued design, and analyze the cost of making the rifle with modern processes. 

 

Fishweewee had a tour awhile ago of a NE firearms plant, I think Colt (?) and was startled by the age of the tooling that he saw. I'll bet that this is true of most older gunmakers, until they get bought out and reduced to a marketing name for Pacific Rim product. 

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I'd love to see the 99 reintroduced with some additional options, like maybe a long action, nice deep black cerakoting, laminate stocks, maybe stainless.  I would think in the larger calibers it would make an ideal "Alaskan" or elk rifle.

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One of the limitations of the Mannlicher-Schoenaer, with the rotary magazine, pertained to the pressure it could stand. Hemingway loved his M-S rifles, but my memory (from reading, only) is that chamberings that were high-pressure, even by 1920 - 30 standards, were dangerous. Whether that was because of the rotary magazine, or the "split bridge" receiver, I don't know ... of to the 'net for more learning. 

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Posted (edited)

On 11/27/2017 at 5:40 PM, BrianBM said:

One of the limitations of the Mannlicher-Schoenaer, with the rotary magazine, pertained to the pressure it could stand. Hemingway loved his M-S rifles, but my memory (from reading, only) is that chamberings that were high-pressure, even by 1920 - 30 standards, were dangerous. Whether that was because of the rotary magazine, or the "split bridge" receiver, I don't know ... of to the 'net for more learning. 

1952 MS was chambered for the .270 Win.  The .270 Win is spec at 65K PSI  max aver pressure.  65K PSI is pretty much up there for pressure in commercial cartridges.  Rotary magazines are not a pressure limiting design

Edited by carbon12

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Thank you.  

 

Wikipedia remarks that the design needed a high level of workmanship skill.  Yet the article also mentions that the tooling was shot by the time production ended, leading to my earlier comments that a corporate entity simply refused to invest in the business.  Given the apparent age of the tooling, I'm sure that it predated not only additive manufacturing, but CNC machining as well.  

 

Someone mentioned the Connecticut Shotgun Manufacturing Company. Their prices are startling.  They may be too small to make the kind of up-front investment needed to revive the Winchester 21, or the 99, or any other "classic" design.  

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1 hour ago, BrianBM said:

Thank you.  

...

 

Someone mentioned the Connecticut Shotgun Manufacturing Company. Their prices are startling.  They may be too small to make the kind of up-front investment needed to revive the Winchester 21, or the 99, or any other "classic" design.  

The make or made, the Win 21 and Classic Fox shotguns in the past. 

 

If you look at the prices on the used market, it's obvious the demand for the 99 doesn't support a re-issue. The company didn't invest in new tooling because declining demand didn't justify the investment. Historically, the gun industry used a lot of special, purpose built, tooling to build guns, that's why it's not all that uncommon up until recently to see 100 year old machines on the factory floor. As an example, I believe the original rib matting machine for Win 21 has been in service in upstate NY since Winchester liquidated the line in the early 1990's (?)

 

:v:

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On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 3:04 AM, gadwall8 said:

I tried to get a guy to a pre-war 250-3000 takedown for months, 25 years ago.

 

:v:

 

I think my friend's 99   is chambered for the 250-3000.

 

I don't remember if it's a take-down model.

 

I looked the serial number up to determine when it was made.

 

1923 IIRC.

 

 

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12 hours ago, gadwall8 said:

The make or made, the Win 21 and Classic Fox shotguns in the past. 

 

 

Yup, CMC still makes the Fox and 21. Prices start around 15k-20k and top out at 30k.  The prices may be in the stratosphere, but I like the fact that they have kept these guns alive.  

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, kross57 said:

Yup, CMC still makes the Fox and 21. Prices start around 15k-20k and top out at 30k.  The prices may be in the stratosphere, but I like the fact that they have kept these guns alive.  

Is the barrel forged by a master samurai sword maker and the stock lovingly polished between Kate Upton's boobs?  For that price they would have to be.

Edited by rosbertos

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5 mins ago, rosbertos said:

Is the barrel is forged by a master samurai sword maker and the stock lovingly polished between Kate Upton's boobs?  For that price they would have to be.

Ha! Yeah, what you are paying for is engraving, gold inlays, swirly walnut, and so on. Nothing that actually makes the gun perform better. But for 21 and Fox owners, the good news is, new parts are still available.

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4 hours ago, kross57 said:

Ha! Yeah, what you are paying for is engraving, gold inlays, swirly walnut, and so on. Nothing that actually makes the gun perform better. But for 21 and Fox owners, the good news is, new parts are still available.

IIRC, the "standard" Fox is a CE grade :th:

 

:v:

 

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I've got a 99-c (clip version) in .308. It's been my main deer rifle for over 35 years. My brother has a rotary magazine version in .300 savage, that was given to him by our grandfather (damn that brother for being a couple years older than me  :D).

 

They do take a beating in the woods. My stock has a bunch of dings, but I earned every one of them. Don't think I'd consider a re-build. The metal is still in pretty good shape.

 

An American classic! But I think they'd have a hard time selling much quantity of a new version over $1000 bucks.  

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On 11/25/2017 at 7:31 AM, kross57 said:

As long as the wood isn't bare, leave it. Or touch up the bare spots. Every bit of that wear was put there by you or your father. It would be a shame to see it erased. And as is, it is perfectly functional. You would gain little practical improvement with a modern bolt gun, at least here in the northeast. Great to have just the way it is. Just an aside, but I think the savage 99 is one of the best looking rifles, EVER. 

 

^ this in spades.  

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