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Anyone make a good Pumpernickel?

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JaseB

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On 10/26/2017 at 11:17 AM, JaseB said:

The recipes online are so varied with everything from coffee to cocoa, was hoping a "real" person had one they could share.

You are in luck! I've done some research into this, just enough to be a dangerous sweetheart! 


But when I started, I was so dumb that I looked for "pumpernickel" flour, which was hard to find, and when I did find it, I was gobsmacked by the fact that it wasn't brown -- it looked like rye flour! Where the hell, then, does pumpernickel get its dark coloring from? 

 

Traditional pumpernickel really is whole-grain rye bread, made with a sourdough leavener -- that's basically it. The reason historically it was so dark is because it was cooked over very low temperatures, for a very long time -- think putting it in a cast iron pan and cooking it over a fire for a day and a half. This caramelized (or whatever; I'm too lazy to look it up) the dough, and made it turn out the dark brown/black color that pumpernickel is known for. 

 

Because today we don't need to cook bread this way -- we got modern ovens, modern yeast strains and all that -- modern pumpernickel recipes all have cheat ingredients to replicate the color of traditional recipes. Cocoa is a popular one, and there are a few other, less popular ones, though I'm too lazy to look them up either. I think that all commercially sold pumpernickels use these kinds of tricks too. 

 

I've come around to thinking that color is virtually meaningless: what matters with bread is the taste, and if you have a good whole-grain rye recipe/method, then adding coloring to it so that it looks different is idiotic. Just do what taste good, and let the chips fall where they may, in terms of color. 

 

The only caveat to this is that making a whole-grain rye bread is not easy: rye flour has little gluten, and as such if you make dough with 100% whole-grain rye (which contains both the light and dark parts of the rye berry), you will very likely end up with a loaf that looks like a big hockey puck. This is doubly true if you want to use a natural/sourdough leavener. You can add white flour to the mix to add gluten, or you can throw in a couple of spoons of vital wheat gluten (a specialty ingredient any good bread-oriented place sells) instead -- these help. 


I've still not perfected my method, but what I'd suggest is finding a commercial/artisan pumpernickel that you like, and reverse engineering from there, trying to replicate (or even improve) the taste. 

Terri Mae does not approve this message, but screw him.

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19 mins ago, Belmo said:

You are in luck! I've done some research into this, just enough to be a dangerous sweetheart! 


But when I started, I was so dumb that I looked for "pumpernickel" flour, which was hard to find, and when I did find it, I was gobsmacked by the fact that it wasn't brown -- it looked like rye flour! Where the hell, then, does pumpernickel get its dark coloring from? 

 

Traditional pumpernickel really is whole-grain rye bread, made with a sourdough leavener -- that's basically it. The reason historically it was so dark is because it was cooked over very low temperatures, for a very long time -- think putting it in a cast iron pan and cooking it over a fire for a day and a half. This caramelized (or whatever; I'm too lazy to look it up) the dough, and made it turn out the dark brown/black color that pumpernickel is known for. 

 

Because today we don't need to cook bread this way -- we got modern ovens, modern yeast strains and all that -- modern pumpernickel recipes all have cheat ingredients to replicate the color of traditional recipes. Cocoa is a popular one, and there are a few other, less popular ones, though I'm too lazy to look them up either. I think that all commercially sold pumpernickels use these kinds of tricks too. 

 

I've come around to thinking that color is virtually meaningless: what matters with bread is the taste, and if you have a good whole-grain rye recipe/method, then adding coloring to it so that it looks different is idiotic. Just do what taste good, and let the chips fall where they may, in terms of color. 

 

The only caveat to this is that making a whole-grain rye bread is not easy: rye flour has little gluten, and as such if you make dough with 100% whole-grain rye (which contains both the light and dark parts of the rye berry), you will very likely end up with a loaf that looks like a big hockey puck. This is doubly true if you want to use a natural/sourdough leavener. You can add white flour to the mix to add gluten, or you can throw in a couple of spoons of vital wheat gluten (a specialty ingredient any good bread-oriented place sells) instead -- these help. 


I've still not perfected my method, but what I'd suggest is finding a commercial/artisan pumpernickel that you like, and reverse engineering from there, trying to replicate (or even improve) the taste. 

Thanks Belmo.  I was 96% there.  I was coming to the same conclusion about the added color.  The Pepperidge Farm Jewish Pump I have been eating my venison pastrami sandwiches uses some commercial dyes.  I could care less what it looks like.

 

Check out the sourdough thread and the orange/fennel/anise/caraway bread.  It's insanely good, although not what you want for a sammich.

"all of jase's posts are valid." -Otter

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Honestly Jase, I thought the rye recipe you like is great pumpernickel.  Maybe leave the orange rind out and maybe one or two of the seeds don’t belong but it seems a lot like pumpernickel 

"I have ... put a lump of ice into an equal quantity of water ...  if a little sea salt be added to the water we shall produce a fluid sensibly colder than the ice was in the beginning, which has appeared a curious and puzzling thing to those unacquainted with the general fact."- Joseph Black

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Molasses is a good suggestion. Malt syrup as well, but gotta be careful cause a little does a long way.

 

Since Bavaria has a lot of pump, what about dark wheat beer (Dunkleweiss)?

"You know the Bill of Rights is serving its purpose when it protects things you wish it didn't."

 

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1 hour ago, Steve in Mass said:

Since Bavaria has a lot of pump, what about dark wheat beer (Dunkleweiss)?

The malt deal with beer is analogous to coffee: all malt has to be roasted, and the longer it gets roasted, the darker the malt gets (just like with coffee beans). Darker beer, like bocks and all that, is just made with darker malt. If you go to a homebrew store, you'll see malts in all kinds of colors, from pale yellow to black. This color ends up in the beer. 

 

It would be nice if one could do this with bread, but alas, one cannot, because while the grains are processed (into flour), they are not roasted before the baker makes bread with 'em. 

Terri Mae does not approve this message, but screw him.

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You can add dark roasted malted barley flour.  I’ve seen bagel recipes that were nice and dark.   10 parts to 300 parts bread flour was all it took

"I have ... put a lump of ice into an equal quantity of water ...  if a little sea salt be added to the water we shall produce a fluid sensibly colder than the ice was in the beginning, which has appeared a curious and puzzling thing to those unacquainted with the general fact."- Joseph Black

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17 hours ago, Belmo said:

Molasses is the darkener I shoulda mentioned. That might be worth pursuing: it adds flavor in addition to color.

Having trouble posting rhe 

thelink on my phone but check out King Arthurs Westphalian Rye.  Cooks for 5 hours!

16 hours ago, JimW said:

Honestly Jase, I thought the rye recipe you like is great pumpernickel.  Maybe leave the orange rind out and maybe one or two of the seeds don’t belong but it seems a lot like pumpernickel 

Good idea!

"all of jase's posts are valid." -Otter

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On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 0:23 PM, Belmo said:

You are in luck! I've done some research into this, just enough to be a dangerous sweetheart! 


But when I started, I was so dumb that I looked for "pumpernickel" flour, which was hard to find, and when I did find it, I was gobsmacked by the fact that it wasn't brown -- it looked like rye flour! Where the hell, then, does pumpernickel get its dark coloring from? 

 

Traditional pumpernickel really is whole-grain rye bread, made with a sourdough leavener -- that's basically it. The reason historically it was so dark is because it was cooked over very low temperatures, for a very long time -- think putting it in a cast iron pan and cooking it over a fire for a day and a half. This caramelized (or whatever; I'm too lazy to look it up) the dough, and made it turn out the dark brown/black color that pumpernickel is known for. 

 

Because today we don't need to cook bread this way -- we got modern ovens, modern yeast strains and all that -- modern pumpernickel recipes all have cheat ingredients to replicate the color of traditional recipes. Cocoa is a popular one, and there are a few other, less popular ones, though I'm too lazy to look them up either. I think that all commercially sold pumpernickels use these kinds of tricks too. 

 

I've come around to thinking that color is virtually meaningless: what matters with bread is the taste, and if you have a good whole-grain rye recipe/method, then adding coloring to it so that it looks different is idiotic. Just do what taste good, and let the chips fall where they may, in terms of color. 

 

The only caveat to this is that making a whole-grain rye bread is not easy: rye flour has little gluten, and as such if you make dough with 100% whole-grain rye (which contains both the light and dark parts of the rye berry), you will very likely end up with a loaf that looks like a big hockey puck. This is doubly true if you want to use a natural/sourdough leavener. You can add white flour to the mix to add gluten, or you can throw in a couple of spoons of vital wheat gluten (a specialty ingredient any good bread-oriented place sells) instead -- these help. 


I've still not perfected my method, but what I'd suggest is finding a commercial/artisan pumpernickel that you like, and reverse engineering from there, trying to replicate (or even improve) the taste. 

Picked up some Hodgson Mill Whole Grain Rye Flour and some Vital Wheat Gluten.  Was going to try the sourdough thing but last weekend got all jammed up and before I knew it, it was Sunday afternoon and I hadn't started anything.  Said eff it and went with the recipe on the back of the bag for Dark German Rye.    I stuck to the recipe which called for a 1/4 Cup of Molasses and 3 T of Coco.  I have to admit, it is way better than I thought it would be.  Especially a quick break recipe with no overnight ferment.  Start to finish was a little over 3 hours.  Stupid easy, good.  Can't complain.

"all of jase's posts are valid." -Otter

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