The Fisherman Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 If you can read the newspaper through it.... Steve Culton "We fish for pleasure; I for Mine, you for yours."-- James Leisenring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsoncall Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Love the Ray's fly. Do you ever tie those with anything but bucktail, like fishair? I've tried fishair and it keeps a really slim profile in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fisherman Posted October 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Nossir. I'm a traditional kind of guy -- bucktail, no eyes, very sparse. It's a classic for sure. You can get slim with bucktail. I tied the Easterly in the video with more of a sand eel than silverside profile. Steve Culton "We fish for pleasure; I for Mine, you for yours."-- James Leisenring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otshawytsha Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Fancy! I'm afraid a lot of the classic bucktail flies, as shown here in this video of flies, have the chief failing of the bucktail getting caught in the bend of the hook. I prefer a modified version of bucktails that prevents this. Otshawytsha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otshawytsha Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) On 10/24/2017 at 7:15 AM, paulsoncall said: Love the Ray's fly. Do you ever tie those with anything but bucktail, like fishair? I've tried fishair and it keeps a really slim profile in the water. Nice work PaulsonCall! Edited October 25, 2017 by Otshawytsha "It's time for you to back off your personal vendetta with TheFisherman - ignore him if you must, but this passive aggressive harassment needs to end"--sorry about that, I'll just ignore him from now on if possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsoncall Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Otshawytsha said: Nice work PaulsonCall! How does Fishair do vis a vis the tangling issue, which is a major drawback of the Ray's Fly? Love to hear that you are thinking out of the box and not hidebound by a slavish adherence to "tradition" or "being traditional". They still get fouled, but IMO a little less often. I do like the way they look in the water though. I’m still very new at this so take my words with a grain of salt. I like experimenting though. Below are a couple made with fishair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oliver Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Otshawytsha said: Fancy! I'm afraid a lot of the classic bucktail flies, as shown here in this video of flies, have the chief failing of the bucktail getting caught in the bend of the hook. I prefer a modified version of bucktails that prevents this. Otshawytsha Ok what mod do you make to prevent fouling. Any hair that extends past the bend of the hook can foul. Bucktail is better than most synthetic or other natural materials especially if you select from a Bucktail that has stiffer hairs than you would normally like to use. The fouling is caused by not so good casting when the fly tips the water either on the fore or back cast or both. So without any modification to a classic pattern we can help with better casting and even maybe shortening our cast so we can keep the water impact from happening. Or just plain put up with having to de foul our flies from time to time. Sure it’s a pain in the arse but anyone who thinks that there is no cost to being engaged in this sport of ours is in denial. Some flies are worth the aggravation. This is one of them. Mike Edited October 25, 2017 by Mike Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otshawytsha Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Mike, Did you ever hear of a Nacht Tern fly? It's just another run of the mill bucktail fly. I tie bucktails using that fly as a base. You tie the longer bucktail in at the bend of the hook and then braid up the shank and then a wing with a shorter finer bucktail and your herl. This alternative only works for stripping flies not so much if you are drifting them in current because the bend of the hook will hang down and they won't really assume a baitfish appearance. The stripers know the difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oliver Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Steve and paulsoncall. liked your flies. I also tye Ray’s Fly. I do like to,adulterate it and attach small yes to it. I put eyes on all my flies in the hope that it is a trigger for predatory fish like Stripers. But without eyes these are proven flies and wonderfully simple to tye for Duggers like me. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oliver Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) I don’t know the Nacht Tern Fly. If we used that technique as you describe we would not end up with a Rays Fly. Ok Deceivers and this is taking us off post then positioning of the Bucktail the lengths and stiffness of the hair can be used to try and reduce fouling and you still end up with a recognisable Deceiver. But this is another story and I don’t wish to derail Steve’s post about the very simplistic and impressionistic Rays Fly. It is a great fish catcher and has a long pedigree. Mike Edited October 25, 2017 by Mike Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otshawytsha Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, paulsoncall said: They still get fouled, but IMO a little less often. I do like the way they look in the water though. I’m still very new at this so take my words with a grain of salt. I like experimenting though. Below are a couple made with fishair. Those look great PaulsonCall! I made an uncalled-for, smartass comment above about "tradition" aimed at TheFisherman which I hereby apologize for to you, TheFisherman. But, PaulsonCall, what I was trying to say, and should have said in more constructive terms without attacking anyone, is that experimenting and trying out new materials and ideas is part of the joy of fly tying and should be cultivated. One thing I noticed is that as I have gotten farther away from the early days of my fly tying education, you become less open to new ideas so I think it's good idea to explore wide and far while the enthusiasm and brain cells are open to it. Edited October 25, 2017 by Otshawytsha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otshawytsha Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) 10 mins ago, Mike Oliver said: I don’t know the Nacht Tern Fly. If we used that technique as you describe we would not end up with a Rays Fly. Ok Deceivers and this is taking us off post then positioning of the Bucktail the lengths and stiffness of the hair can be used to try and reduce fouling and you still end up with a recognisable Deceiver. But this is another story and I don’t wish to derail Steve’s post about the very simplistic and impressionistic Rays Fly. It is a great fish catcher and has a long pedigree. Mike Ok sorry I won't continue discussion vein we had opened there. Maybe will post a new thread regarding solutions to Ray's Flies fouling and other stuff. I had a lot more words I wanted to right about other stuff you raised but you are right--belongs in a new thread. Edited October 25, 2017 by Otshawytsha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oliver Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Otshawytsha That’s a great idea. It would be good to have a thread which covers fly design from the angle of reducing fouling. I certainly could do with help in that area of fly tying. I bet it would attract a lot of interest. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otshawytsha Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 4 mins ago, Mike Oliver said: Otshawytsha That’s a great idea. It would be good to have a thread which covers fly design from the angle of reducing fouling. I certainly could do with help in that area of fly tying. I bet it would attract a lot of interest. Mike OK good idea. We can leave this thread to appreciations of TheFisherman's video of his very nice sparse flies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyrad10 Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 The Fisherman What type of hook are you using on those buck tails? Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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