The Riddler

Swell Scupper 14

134 posts in this topic

 

56 mins ago, kross57 said:

The bulbous bow was what made the original so good in surf. Why do they always fix what is not broken.

 Probably because most kayakers will not try to surf a 14 foot boat to the point where it's perling, but will want to paddle it in a cross wind. Tim Niemier possibly agrees with you, I read somewhere he split from Swell in part over their redesign of the bow. 

 

Adding volume to a bow is actually pretty easy DIY.  Whitewater play boaters do it all the time, gluing chunks of foam to the bow and stern decks to change the surfing dynamics. I knew guys who would put a chunk of foam in their lap and stretch their skirt over that to add volume.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, gellfex said:

 

 Probably because most kayakers will not try to surf a 14 foot boat to the point where it's perling, but will want to paddle it in a cross wind. Tim Niemier possibly agrees with you, I read somewhere he split from Swell in part over their redesign of the bow. 

 

Adding volume to a bow is actually pretty easy DIY.  Whitewater play boaters do it all the time, gluing chunks of foam to the bow and stern decks to change the surfing dynamics. I knew guys who would put a chunk of foam in their lap and stretch their skirt over that to add volume.

One of the best features of the old pro was it's ability in surf launching and landing. This is not a bay boat, it's an ocean boat and Tim shows that in his promotional video. I'm a bit puzzled here because you don't launch in surf and have never owned a scupper pro, yet are holding forth on both subjects as if you understood them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I shall now return to my policy of not engaging with you, since you apparently cannot have a civil discussion of boats without insults. Decades of boating whitewater and salt qualify me to have an opinion, and not to have to deal with your aggressive bull****.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, gellfex said:

And I shall now return to my policy of not engaging with you, since you apparently cannot have a civil discussion of boats without insults. Decades of boating whitewater and salt qualify me to have an opinion, and not to have to deal with your aggressive bull****.

I really don't get this "I'm taking my ball and going home" attitude. Decades of whatever don't qualify you to talk about how a boat you are unfamiliar with will perform in an environment you are unfamiliar with. You can certainly speculate, but all that is, is guessing. The bulbous bow on the scupper pro causes no problem in wind. Why would it be a problem in the new one? And it doesn't take much of a wave to perl a 14 foot fishing kayak if it lacks bow volume and rocker.

 

You might try using terms like "I think" or "maybe". Just a suggestion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Their Facebook page has a link to a reviewer that says the boat is 25" wide rather than the previously-announced 26. Fascinating, going so narrow. I wonder if that's why they got rid of the gunwale tracks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the bigger volume bow on my paddle SIK ( a Coaster) it allows me to float over swells/chop easily and keeps me drier.  If the boat is designed to track well I don't think a larger volume bow like the ScupPro would be that much of a hindrance in wind. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, YakDawg said:

I like the bigger volume bow on my paddle SIK ( a Coaster) it allows me to float over swells/chop easily and keeps me drier.  If the boat is designed to track well I don't think a larger volume bow like the ScupPro would be that much of a hindrance in wind. 

If anything the old pro tracked too well. You are probably right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, YakDawg said:

I like the bigger volume bow on my paddle SIK ( a Coaster) it allows me to float over swells/chop easily and keeps me drier.  If the boat is designed to track well I don't think a larger volume bow like the ScupPro would be that much of a hindrance in wind.

In the promo image of differences I posted, they specifically state "lower flatter nose draws less windage". Clearly people involved in the design who were extensively demoing the various Prototypes, as well as having paddled the original, thought there was an issue. Yet it was a matter of personal opinion and not obvious to all since the original designer Tim Niemier apparently disagreed. He says on his blog "Jim has changed the deck design of his new Swell Scupper to be produced in February. I don’t consider it my design anymore."

*

As a professional designer of human operated objects, I can say from experience there's always tradeoffs to be made, nothing is perfect for everyone, despite what Apple will tell you. Everyone's body, personal tastes and conditions are different, which is why more choices are better. I think it's great we now have this boat as a choice. Tim claims to be making and selling his version, so that would be a great choice to have too.  And as I said above, if the only thing wrong with the Swell is a lower bow deck volume than you'd like, of all kayak hull performance characteristics this is the easiest one to correct DIY.

Edited by TimS
Please don’t post links to commercial sites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So this is interesting. I emailed Swell to ask if they were planning on having a NYC area dealer, and he responds promptly asking me who do I suggest they talk to.  This is not my area of expertise, does anyone have suggestions of dealers on the water so that you can demo?  Empire on LI? Does the Wildwood KFS demo? Peconic Paddler still seems in business even though they told me they were closing years ago!  Swell should still probably talk to Campmor but demo paddles is not their thing as far as I know.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Jersey  Paddler is closed.  KFS in Wildwood is no longer located on the water.  Chris Parson is the contact for the Kayak Fishing store.   The hobie dealer in wildwood and point pleasant do demo's. Not sure they would want 

a paddle kayak there ?  Aslo Paddlers cove in washington New Jersey   is still in business. I am pretty sure the contact there is John. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, gellfex said:

does anyone have suggestions of dealers on the water so that you can demo?

 

 

Dosil's has a pool, and is close to the water in Middletown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, gellfex said:

So this is interesting. I emailed Swell to ask if they were planning on having a NYC area dealer, and he responds promptly asking me who do I suggest they talk to.  This is not my area of expertise, does anyone have suggestions of dealers on the water so that you can demo?  Empire on LI? Does the Wildwood KFS demo? Peconic Paddler still seems in business even though they told me they were closing years ago!  Swell should still probably talk to Campmor but demo paddles is not their thing as far as I know.

 

 

Can't go wrong with Mike and Gabby at Empire in Island Park.  Peconic is still on going despite their annual going out of business announcement.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 mins ago, YakDawg said:

Can't go wrong with Mike and Gabby at Empire in Island Park.  Peconic is still on going despite their annual going out of business announcement.

Thanks, never been to Empire but I've heard good things before. When my folks lived in Riverhead and Mattituck I used to be in Peconic all the time, is the same wiry old dude running it? He's a character.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

11 mins ago, gellfex said:

Thanks, never been to Empire but I've heard good things before. When my folks lived in Riverhead and Mattituck I used to be in Peconic all the time, is the same wiry old dude running it? He's a character.  

I haven't been there (Peconic) in years.  Took a peek online looks there are new owners as of 2017.  And yes Jim was quite the character.  

Edited by YakDawg
correction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, gellfex said:

In the promo image of differences I posted, they specifically state "lower flatter nose draws less windage". Clearly people involved in the design who were extensively demoing the various Prototypes, as well as having paddled the original, thought there was an issue. Yet it was a matter of personal opinion and not obvious to all since the original designer Tim Niemier apparently disagreed. He says on his blog "Jim has changed the deck design of his new Swell Scupper to be produced in February. I don’t consider it my design anymore."

 

As a professional designer of human operated objects, I can say from experience there's always tradeoffs to be made, nothing is perfect for everyone, despite what Apple will tell you. Everyone's body, personal tastes and conditions are different, which is why more choices are better. I think it's great we now have this boat as a choice. Tim claims to be making and selling his version, so that would be a great choice to have too.  And as I said above, if the only thing wrong with the Swell is a lower bow deck volume than you'd like, of all kayak hull performance characteristics this is the easiest one to correct DIY.

So now you know more about kayak design than Tim niemier. You really think gluing some foam to the nose of a kayak will make it surf well? When you do that to yours and launch and land it in substantial waves, let me know. I want a good seat. *

They traded surf capability to correct a problem that didn't exist.

Edited by TimS
Please leave out the personal off topic crap - thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now