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18 gram distance rod choices

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iamnobody

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Hi long time lurker here.

 

I am looking for a rod blank to cast the 18 gram UKSF plug pendulum/otg style, with the ability to also cast to up to 4 oz with a regular overhead cast.

 

I live in NYC around 15 minutes from a park so I usually go to the park to practice casting to satisfy my appetite as I can not go fishing as often. So the blank will have to throw 18 grams capably but still have the ability to throw lures (mostly topwater) for stripers and blues.

 

I don't have much experience with throwing lead for distance, but can cast around 96' (on the tape) with 3wt barrio gt90. I am building a rod to throw MED5 and I expect a bit more distance with that. Basically I'm looking to try my hand at throwing lead for distance for variety, but don't really want to get the distances available with heavier leads (probably don't have the space either) and the 18 gram plug is plastic which looks a lot safer. I don't cast competitively (at least not yet, I'm not good enough!) but I enjoy improving my skills and "competing" against my self.

 

I can get the CTS Vapor Trail 12' 3lbs test curve blank discounted for $300 from a friend but I was wondering if that would be too soft. It seems like with distance casting the spring aspect of a rod does not factor in as much as the effective length of the rod when loaded. I was also looking at the Zziplex Profile lure as it is the rod that the UKSF recommends and is the one that most competitions are won with but it is quite heavy. It weighs 450 grams built. The Vapor trail weighs only 180 gram unbuilt. Even with the Vapor Trail built, I would think the Vapor Trail would be a fraction of the weight of the profile lure. The profile lure is a much stiffer rod though. Are there any other blanks that will cast the 18 gram plug well while still functioning ok as a fishing rod for around $300? The only other option I see at the moment is one of the Century carp rods, particularly the FMA or the 13ft Spodding Machine. I don't think I have the skill yet to properly load the more powerful Centurys.

 

I am currently still working on my OTG cast with a old st Criox 8' with 5 or so inches broken off the tip and all I can say is that I am casting farther than my measuring tape (30m).

 

Are there any options better (i.e. lighter and stiff enough) than the gold standard that is the Profile Lure? Thanks.

Edited by iamnobody
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A good 12'-13' UK-style carp rod will do the trick

A 3-3.5lb test curve should be able to cast 4oz.

Century's are very nice but expensive.

CTS VT will work beautifully.

What reel and line are you currently using?

 

Currently I am using an old that St. Criox 8' 1-3 (don't know the exact model) with a few inches broken off the tip with a Penn battle 5000 and 30 lb braid. When it gets warmer I will try to measure with a longer measuring tape or google maps. I think I will to pendulum cast next time with a long drop.

 

Can a CTS VT 1-3 (3lbs test curve) withstand a low swing pendulum, with a 5/8oz (18 gram) payload?

Edited by iamnobody
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A good portion of the information you are looking for can be found by doing a google search on

18 gram plug casting part 1

There is also a part 2.

 

It seems Century is the way to go.

 

You may be able to find a few more videos by doing a search on

 

myfishcasting

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1-3 VT will handle 18g without raising a sweat.

IF you get a rod of similar calibre, start with a high inertia cast with at least an ounce, to get the rod to load and get the feel for it.

Then move to OTG and gradually increase your rotation.

Then  pendulum.

30lb US spec braid is doing you no favours casting 18g. None. Nice for casting leaders if you are casting 3-4oz.

I wouldn't cast 18g with a 0.35mm mono or braid and its effectively what you are doing.

You would increase distance JUST be dropping braid BS.

Jbraid is not expensive. 15lb will handle 18g easy peasy

Try.

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A good portion of the information you are looking for can be found by doing a google search on18 gram plug casting part 1

There is also a part 2.

 

It seems Century is the way to go.

 

You may be able to find a few more videos by doing a search on

 

myfishcasting

I actually started out watching those videos, even though I am still groundcasting. The foot placement tip has helped a lot.

1-3 VT will handle 18g without raising a sweat.

IF you get a rod of similar calibre, start with a high inertia cast with at least an ounce, to get the rod to load and get the feel for it.

Then move to OTG and gradually increase your rotation.

Then pendulum.

30lb US spec braid is doing you no favours casting 18g. None. Nice for casting leaders if you are casting 3-4oz.

I wouldn't cast 18g with a 0.35mm mono or braid and its effectively what you are doing.

You would increase distance JUST be dropping braid BS.

Jbraid is not expensive. 15lb will handle 18g easy peasy

Try.

I would think that a new line would be kind of wasted on my current setup though. I am casting a 2 oz sinker with it currently. The minimum diameter regs are .2mm. Shock leader in unregulated unless you down below .35 mm. Would mono at that diameter be a better choice?

 

 

 

 

has anyone had experience with the Century FMA or C2D Spod (13ft version of spodding machine)? Otherwise I will end up going with the CTS VT or Profile Lure if the price is right.

Edited by iamnobody
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Hi,

 

The Zziplex Profile Lure has recently been superceded by the Zziplex Baitcaster as used by Colin Howlett & myself in the 2014 World Championships in Szamotuly, Poland for both events 7 & 9.

 

Another option would be the Zziplex Profile Lite designed for weights in the 1-3oz but also very capable of casting 18g ICSF plugs.

 

In 2004 I started off using a Century 5lb TC catfish rod for ev9 and a 13' Century FMJ for ev7 but found the 'over' recovery of the rods caused many issues especially for ev9.

 

Dont get hung up over the weight of the blank/rod as a good sound technique will overcome this.   

Edited by Led
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Can we change some of your terms?

 

18 Grams is around 3/4 oz. 28 grams is an ounce.

 

Getting a rod that casts 3/4 oz and 4 oz will be difficult. Getting a long rod ( ten foot or more) to cast 3/4 oz is also difficult.

If being stupid got us into this mess, how come being stupid can't get us out?
I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all.

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Can we change some of your terms?

 

18 Grams is around 3/4 oz. 28 grams is an ounce.

 

Getting a rod that casts 3/4 oz and 4 oz will be difficult. Getting a long rod ( ten foot or more) to cast 3/4 oz is also difficult.

 

I don't think they are unreasonable terms. I am only going to be casting the 18 gram (5/8 oz) ICSF plug using a low swing pendulum or otg. I will be using a overhead cast (which does not load the rod nearly as much) for up to 4 oz for fishing. Rods meant for distance tournaments are usually much stiffer than normal so a 18 gram distance rod would probably be around a 4 oz rating. For example if you look at the videos Don B suggested, the guy says hes using a Century TTULST which is only rated up to 4 1/2 oz and he even says that some are using the TTLDSM which is rated up to 7 oz. With fly casting, I am pretty sure I have a preference for a stiffer rod as I use a 5wt to cast a 3wt line. Additionally, the rod will probably be used 80% for casting and only 20% for fishing.

 

Maybe I should just rephrase my question to are there any blanks better than the gold standard Zziplex Profile Lure to throw the 18 gram distance plug fixed spool (spinning) while still being able to cast (overhead thump) up to 4 oz.

 

If you compare videos of 18 gram competitions and 100+ gram competitions, the most immediate difference is the speed that the 18 gram distance casters use. That is mainly why I was enquiring about lighter rods like the VT so I could rotate the rod faster.

 

I will also try to get a video of myself casting. Does a long drop (for pendulum) with a short rod work?

Edited by iamnobody
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Hi,

 

The Zziplex Profile Lure has recently been superceded by the Zziplex Baitcaster as used by Colion Howlett & myself in the 2014 World Championships in Szamotuly, Poland for both events 7 & 9.

 

Another option would be the Zziplex Profile Lite designed for weights in the 1-3oz but also very capable of casting 18g ICSF plugs.

 

In 2004 I started off using a Century 5lb TC catfish rod for ev9 and a 13' Century FMJ for ev7 but found the 'over' recovery of the rods caused many issues especially for ev9.

 

Dont get hung up over the weight of the blank/rod as a good sound technique will overcome this.   

 

Damn its really Andy Miller! I am also an Andy/Andrew. Thank you for the recommendation. My obsession over weight probably stems from fly casting. I guess with two hands (and with a lead!) the casting mechanics are a bit different. Still, is it possible for Lee Isham to make an Evo version :). How much are the blanks? I live in the US so I guess VAT would not be factor but shipping would.

 

Do you still use the huge rings that are listed on the UKSF website? I was thinking of using Fuji concept guides as I will be fishing this rod as well. Do you lose any distance with them? I am guessing you are using Ultima Distance for the line.

 

I think my current list is Zziplex Baitcaster, the CTS VT 12' 1-3, or a Century carp rod. Andy, were your issues with the Century related to crackoffs? What type of action were the centurys compared to the Zzipplexs.

 

One last question, I am watching and rewatching a lot of videos from otgman on the EV7 and EV9 events. For both is seems like many are hitting it a tad bit earlier with the 18 gram plug compared to somebody casting say, 100 grams. Is this observation true, or am I just getting confused by the lower rod flex earlier in the cast as a result of a stiffer rod used?

 

p.s. nice cast

:p 

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I tried to login using my old account 'Otgman' but it wasnt having it so I created a new account as 'Led', so my posts require 'Moderator approval'

 

The Profile Lure was purposely designed for ICSF Ev9 back in 2004, Colin, Peter & myself played around with a number of blanks commercially available and specials that we had accees to, Terry watched and came up with an amazing design that took a long time to beat which he did with the Baitcaster.

 

Evo variant, Lee created a one off for me in September 2015 to cast 100-150g (3.75 - 5.25oz), it's an absolute joy to use, lightweight but very responsive with an amazing tip that has very quick recovery, performance wise it's given me distances in-excess fo 230m (750'+) with zero caster fatigue or injuries. This variant is far to powerful for casting 18g (5/8 oz) plugs.

 

Ev7 & 9 setups - both blanks are the same 'Baitcaster', Ev7 is rung with a 16mm tip and then 3 of the large Polish rings (as per the UKSF website), these have been spaced to accommodate my choice of reel and spool combination to minimise ring friction and more importantly distance. I have tried a number of other rings from various manufacturers as very inch is important, but after trying various options and patterns I've got my distances with the big rings, they are quite light in weight. Ev9 is rung with lightweight titanium guides in a high stand off variant, not Fuji's as I wanted the lightest possible so that the action of the blank remains as crisp as possible. Line wise, I'm still using Ultima Distance, its supple and comes with a good price point (I do get through a lot of line), Leader wise it's Ultima 'F1'  in 0.38mm (20lb test).

 

Other blanks - the issues we had was predominantly due to over recovery (tip swaying after making the cast) which either caused crack-offs or birdsnests on both set-ups. The ideal was for a tip had minimal over recovery so that the line could flow through the guides without causing the reel to pulse-acceleration in the case of the multiplier or to add additional coils from the fixed spool.

 

Blank price - I can ask but would guess at ~£250 plus shipping, but will ask Lee for you.

 

Dont discount the GLoomis blanks, the later variants are very capable, I was very impressed with the ones Henry Mitel was using in Halle, Germany. 

 

Casting style - it's easier to hit the plug earlier due to its low mass but a good style is always required to maximise the potential distance. There are some real video howlers out there that provide hours of laughter for everyone to watch though there are a good number of informative videos.  

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"I will also try to get a video of myself casting. Does a long drop (for pendulum) with a short rod work?"

 

How long is short?

 

Perhaps 10 years ago, Roger Mortimore came through Hawaii and was gracious enough to conduct a work shop. I was able to get a park next to the ocean and we cast into the water. I noticed that most folks were casting with very short drops. I grabbed a 14 ft Conoflex and 5 ounce Livingston float and stepped onto about a 2 ft high cement platform. After getting the group to move back, I did a pendulum cast with a 16 ft drop. It's an unusual feeling to have the float pass under your feet on the in swing. Everything was in slow motion. The point was made and several people tried casting with longer length drops.  Timing, speed, and effective length of the rod should be some of the major considerations when using a shorter rod.

 

OBTW, that was Andy's brother casting.

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"Long drop on a short rod" or "a short drop on a long rod" all require a good sound technique.

 

Video, not my brother but myself at the end of the day trying something different not knowing that someone had knotted the leader around the reel !!

 

Attached is a video of my final cast from the ev9 final in Tallin, the weather wasn't pleasant but that's life !

I made the longest cast but finished last in the final.

 

Also is a slo-mo of me training a few days before the final.

 

And 2 videos of COLIN & myself field testing the new Baitcaster blank.

trim.AFD3E942-6816-4934-B828-3667FC51D505.MOV

trim.E574F481-8956-45C9-ADC8-D1B00E1F582F.MOV

trim.49B34448-2042-40F6-A983-F5BC4AFA41BB.MOV

trim.83E4A88A-A03C-4607-881E-A029CF7AFEA1.MOV

Edited by otgman
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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks so much for the information. Sorry for not replying earlier, I was caught up in a lot of work.

 

You don't have to convince me anymore on the blank, the Zziplex was my dream rod in the beginning, just thought that the blanks were much more expensive. The g loomis tournament blanks are only built for casting, but I guess that is what I will mostly be doing anyways. But given the choice between Zziplex and loomis, I know what I will take any day :).

 

I think the "over recovery" of other rods could be caused by excess tip weight. At least that's what happens with fly rods. Do you have Lee's email? Calling him from the US would be a bit of a difficulty. 

 

A bit more on on the guides, are you taping them on with fiberglass tape? Also have you tried any of the fuji K series guides or the Minimas in titanium? I would think they would be just as light as the Polish style rings. 

 

oh yeah, what reel are you using for fixed spool? I am planning on buying a shimano ultegra XSD or a Surf leader. 

Edited by iamnobody
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