Jump to content

What new law would have prevented this tragedy?

Rate this topic


TimS

Recommended Posts

No law will ever stop all sick people from doing evil.  Take away the gun and another way will be found.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

The Bath School disaster was a series of violent attacks perpetrated by Andrew Kehoe on May 18, 1927, in Bath Township, Michigan, that killed 38 elementary schoolchildren and 6 adults and injured at least 58 other people.[Note 1] Kehoe killed his wife and firebombed his farm, then detonated an explosion in the Bath Consolidated School, before committing suicide by detonating a final device in his truck. It is the deadliest mass murder to take place at a school in United States history.

fishinambition  Posted June 30 ·After a decade and a half of trolling and disrupting the website, frank's finally fed up with Tim's bull****

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Do you object to removing the rights of Americans that brag about their ties to and/or allegiance to ISIS? Because I'm not - you want to support ISIS? Be my guest - you can do so from whatever 3rd world **** hole we decide to deport you to. Yes, I'm willing to remove the rights of people who live in the US and pledge allegiance to ISIS or materially support ISIS. Lock them the **** up, put them in a box and deliver them to Syria where they can be with their brethren. No need to worry about their 2A rights, they will no longer be US citizens.

Without due process, I object to it.

 

2a, 1a, 4a, 14a.   we would be suspending parts of all of them if  this is based upon a government list

Edited by jkrock

"mother Theresa was a POS"-fish'nmagician

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But there was enough smoke to at least get him closer scrutiny and investigation.

 

 

Another potential avenue of investigation is a pair of trips Mateen, 29, took to Saudi Arabia in March 2011 and March 2012 for umrah, a non-mandatory visit to Mecca for Muslims. Saudi Arabia's Interior Ministry spokesman confirmed the trips to The Associated Press in a text message Monday. Umrah can be performed at any time of the year.

Law enforcement officials could not confirm to Fox News what Mateen’s exact itinerary was, including cities he may have visited or individuals he may have met with; however, Mateen is known to have stayed in the Kingdom for 10 days during the first trip and eight days during the second trip.

After checking with Saudi officials, Comey said the FBI found nothing incriminating about the trips.

 

 

Mateen first appeared on the FBI's radar in May 2013 after co-workers at a courthouse where he served as a contract security guard reported that Mateen made claims he had family in Al Qaeda, a Sunni terror group, and was himself a member of Hezbollah, a Shia terror group. Mateen said he hoped law enforcement officials would raid his apartment and "assault his wife and child so he could martyr himself," Comey said. He's also alleged to have claimed a connection to the Boston Marathon bombers, The Washington Post reported.

The 2013 probe was closed after a 10-month investigation, during which agents introduced confidential sources to Mateen, recorded conversations with him, searched government archives and twice interviewed Mateen in person. He was on a watch list during the investigation, and if he had tried to purchase a firearm during this period, he would have been flagged to the FBI, Comey said.

Mateen told agents he had made the terror statements in anger "because co-workers were discriminating against him and teasing him because he was Muslim." Investigators came to believe the statements were mere boasts and Mateen was not legitimately tied to any terror groups.

“He seems to be looking for any opportunity to associate with the terrorist group du jour,” a senior U.S. official told The Washington Post.

Politicians and diapers should be changed often and regularly,  invariably for the same reason.

______________________________________________________________

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
Attributed to Abraham Lincoln.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tim,

I don't know if a new law is what was needed. When the guy is on a watch list and then he applies to purchase an assault rifle, some how that transaction request needs to be linked back to the FBI and the watch list. In my opinion, if you have someone who is on a watch list they should have a local field officer interview the person who is trying to buy the weapon. Reality is that anyone can buy any gun illegally anyway. What we don't know is whether the interview would have revealed something. 

 

There are a lot of people who oppose these checks. IMO I think we need them and we need to weed out those who should now own the guns if we want to protect the rights of those who are using them responsibly.

 

It is no different than going through a DUI check point. It is a pain in the butt but you understand why you have to do it and in the end it is good for all of us if the drunks are caught.

Taking a quick glance, I understand what you're saying, and it makes sense at a certain level, but I always worry about giving up freedoms to the state.  Even the DUI checkpoints.  It just seems like an attack on liberty, under the guise of "what's good for us".  How many people get tickets for expired plates, having an old insurance card and not the newest one, or some other infraction that has nothing to do with sobriety?  It's as much a money maker as it is "good for us".

I get your argument Eric, and it's a good one, but I do worry about loss of liberty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mike Munn,

DUI checkpoints is a lot like the argument JimG made on the Patriot Act.

 

I too oppose invading EVERYONE'S rights in hopes of finding a bad guy in the bunch.

 

the terror watch list is much more like putting a cruiser on the side of the road and having him there passively watching traffic looking for speeders or a drunk driver that is weaving in the road.

I'm OK with that.

 

I support the right to own a weapon,

 

I think we should do what we can to prevent criminals, terrorists and crazy people from getting their hands on them.

Eggy 10-13

LAA 7-14

50-50 2-15

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anti abortion laws will not end abortion,

so why pass them?

 

Laws against murder doesn't stop it,

so why pass them?

 

speed limits on a road doesn't stop speeding so why have them?

 

Laws don't seem to end the crime they address.

They are (most of the time) agreed upon societal "norms" that are to be enforced.  They may not eliminate crime, but they do separate the law abiding from the outlaws in the eyes of the community.  Without them, it's anarchy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mike Munn,

DUI checkpoints is a lot like the argument JimG made on the Patriot Act.

 

I too oppose invading EVERYONE'S rights in hopes of finding a bad guy in the bunch.

 

the terror watch list is much more like putting a cruiser on the side of the road and having him there passively watching traffic looking for speeders or a drunk driver that is weaving in the road.

I'm OK with that.

 

I support the right to own a weapon,

 

I think we should do what we can to prevent criminals, terrorists and crazy people from getting their hands on them.

I agree, I'm just wary of gov't ability to do it without going overboard.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They are (most of the time) agreed upon societal "norms" that are to be enforced.  They may not eliminate crime, but they do separate the law abiding from the outlaws in the eyes of the community.  Without them, it's anarchy.

correct.

 

on that end I think it's good to prevent the mentally imbalanced or potential terrorists from getting guns.

If you want to go on record with fantasies about martyring yourself in a blaze of glory,

I'm ok not allowing you to buy guns.

Eggy 10-13

LAA 7-14

50-50 2-15

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tim,

I don't know if a new law is what was needed. When the guy is on a watch list and then he applies to purchase an assault rifle, some how that transaction request needs to be linked back to the FBI and the watch list. In my opinion, if you have someone who is on a watch list they should have a local field officer interview the person who is trying to buy the weapon. Reality is that anyone can buy any gun illegally anyway. What we don't know is whether the interview would have revealed something. 

 

There are a lot of people who oppose these checks. IMO I think we need them and we need to weed out those who should now own the guns if we want to protect the rights of those who are using them responsibly.

 

It is no different than going through a DUI check point. It is a pain in the butt but you understand why you have to do it and in the end it is good for all of us if the drunks are caught.

He wasn't on a watch list - he was bought in for questioning...and released both times. The questioning was completed and he was released - he was not on any watch list. They can't vet a US citizen that they interrogated twice properly....yet we are told they'll be able to properly vet tens of thousands of "refugees" because...well...we feel bad for them :rolleyes:  If they found he was linked to ISIS or terrorism, the FBI would have held him or put him on a list - but they released him after the interviews. An obvious failure on their part.

 

Any law that would remove 2A rights from ANYONE the FBI questions, regardless of the outcome, would certainly be unconstitutional...as it should be. Suspicion of anything shouldn't be cause for removal of rights. This guy was twice released by the FBI and deemed to be not a threat - they were, in retrospect, very wrong. There was nothing in the background check that would have prevented him from legally buying any firearm.

 

TimS

Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere.
Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree, I'm just wary of gov't ability to do it without going overboard.  

every time there is a shooting like this,

the gun nuts will discuss how it's a mental health issue.....

but will NEVER discuss how to prevent the mentally unwell from getting guns.

 

 

if you want to brag about your terrorist connections,

I'm OK with your 2a rights being suspended.

Eggy 10-13

LAA 7-14

50-50 2-15

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Laws:  so Trump increases his rhetoric about banning Muslim immigrants, that would require changes to immigration law, be discriminatory and have no effect on the Orlando Shooting whatsoever. 

 

Who said it would require changes to immigration law?

 

An Executive Order seems to be all that is needed if recent history is an example.

Politicians and diapers should be changed often and regularly,  invariably for the same reason.

______________________________________________________________

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
Attributed to Abraham Lincoln.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

every time there is a shooting like this,

the gun nuts will discuss how it's a mental health issue.....

but will NEVER discuss how to prevent the mentally unwell from getting guns.

 

 

if you want to brag about your terrorist connections,

I'm OK with your 2a rights being suspended.

In theory, I agree with you, BUT that leads to a LOT of survaillence.  I'm very wary of ceading that much power to the gov't, especially the feds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×
×
  • Create New...