I havent' spoken to anyone who has tried them in teh SW, nor have I read any reports.
American Tackle's new Titan titanium guides
Posted November 10 2010 - 11:33 PM
The test is finished, finally
Back when this thread was running I wrapped a Purglass 300-1 with Fuji Ti Cermets except for the stripper guide which was an AmTak Ti Titan Nanolite
Here it is 5 years later, the rod has been fished many, many times, never washed off even once and all the guides look as good as the day I tied em on - including the AmTak.
I just wanta play everyday despite small nagging injuries --
and go home to a woman who appreciates how full of crap I truly am. ~ Crash Davis
I'm really easy to get along with once you people learn to see it my way.
Posted November 11 2010 - 8:28 AM
Thanks for the report good info, good performance and no maintenance gotta like that
Posted November 11 2010 - 3:25 PM
4 years, minimum maintenance and no issues. Latest info from American Tackle is that they will be replacing a large portion of their current guide line-up with their "ring lock" design. They did experience difficulties conforming the titanium alloy to the front face of the ring-lock design but that has apparently been overcome.
Posted November 11 2010 - 4:39 PM
I'm glad to see the positive results although to me it was a foregone conclusion. Our Titan guides with our titanium alloy frames are maintenance free. They will never corrode and are a fraction of the weight of SS. The NanoLite ring is only slightly surpassed by SiC but has all the hardness you need. They are stronger so we reduce the mass making them lighter than SiC and the surface is just as slick. All this for a fraction of the price.
We're phasing out all the old style frames tested here in favor of the new Ring Lock frames. With the introduction of the Fly, Lite Casting, the new Typhoon for medium spin up to size 40 and the Virtus Lites (20-60lb) and Heavies (50-80lb) up to 40mm in the Ring Lock frame we think we've improved the line dramatically.
If you look at the new saltwater offerings in the Ring Lock Titans they are unmatched in performance and value by any company.
Thanks for giving us the opportunity. I hope we've made you a believer. Joe Meehan, American Tackle.
Posted November 11 2010 - 5:08 PM
I finally got around to ordering the Typhoons, very nice guides! They are nearly identical to the BMNAG/MNSG Fuji guides, except the different rings and more options in terms of ring material/coatings and the double front foot instead of the Fuji single front foot. Very nice, they will replace the MNSG series guides I used on tuna jigging and popping rods for those that are on a tighter budget or who want the ring colors. The black/gold and TiCh and blue look sweet, any plans for blue nanolite ring/black frame in the Virtus or Typhoons???
Posted November 11 2010 - 5:15 PM
I didn't know this until recently, but evidently only ferrous metals (i.e. stuff with iron in it) will rust. This includes iron, steel, and (the biggie here) stainless steel. The only way to get rid of rust is to get rid of the iron. I don't know squat about metallurgy or chemistry, but this does make sense to me.
I also don't have a clue what's in the alloy they're using, but I'm guessing that that the AmTak titanium guides do not contain iron, and therefore can't rust. This is a huge benefit for these guides, and it is why I've recently been using them every chance I get. The lightness is a nice side benefit, but for me the no-rust thing is the main thing. It's nice to have corrosion-free guides that don't require taking out a second mortgage.
Posted November 11 2010 - 5:57 PM
Not all stainless will rust.. Most of the common types can like 300 and 400 series.. ie 316SS!
There are stainless steels out there that are resitant to rust but it depends on the nickel content. Stainless has strength and the ability to shed chemical staining, rusting is not staining it's an oxidation.
Think of Titanium as a strong aluminum in a way. metals like Magnesium,Aluminum can corode which is oxidation. .. Wow boring!!
I like the Amtaks Ti guides and have used the NIVs on a few rods and have had no problems with ring pop though I have seen it happen. The new Ring Locks are titty!!
Posted November 11 2010 - 8:47 PM
Our titanium is an alloy and is completely inert in saltwater. It has one of the highest strength to weight ratios among all metals but in equal gauges SS is stronger and more malleable and elastic. With that said our new designs are near perfect with no reports of any problems.
SS has a shelf life as far as corrosion in saltwater. When you cover SS with a ceramic ring or rod wraps it will corrode. Ours less than others because of the nickel & chromium content. Left uncovered Surfmaster is right it will only oxidize. If you want to eliminate rust altogether use titanium its worth the extra money for peace of mind and performance.
The new Titan Ring Locks have all but eliminated ring loss. We are very happy with the new sleek designs. We like the short quad leg foot print it reduces a lot of the ring popping torque you will find in the longer frame designs wrapped on a flexing blank.
Taz No black and blue planned for now. It was one of our favorites but it sold less than the black/gold or TiCH and Blue but that may change.
Joe Meehan, American Tackle.
Posted November 12 2010 - 3:21 PM
Rust is oxidation and almost all metals will oxidize. Titanium certainly does oxidize. If it didn't , it would not be as corrosion resistant as it is. I'll explain that in a little bit.
When pure metal atoms are exposed to an environment with oxygen , they almost immediately form an oxide of that metal on the surface. Iron atoms form one of 3 types of oxides. Aluminum forms an oxide and titanium forms an oxide. It is virtually impossible to prevent the oxidation of pure aluminum and titanium because the thermodynamic driving force for them to oxidize is huge.
The reasom iron rots away and the aluminum and titanium don't is because of the nature of the oxide that each forms. The oxide that forms on aluminum and titanium is tightly bonded to the metal it forms on. It also does not allow oxygen through to oxidize the pure metal under it. Aluminum is the same. These types of oxide films are call "passivating" films. If the Ti and AL didn't readily oxidize to form these films , it would corrode easily. Iron oxide does not form a tightly adhered oxide film that prevents oxigen from getting through. Therefore after the initial thin layer of oxide forms on iron , the base metal continues to oxidize below this initial film. The iron oxide film does not "passivate" the surface of the base metal.
Stainless steel has Ni and Chrome in it. When it is exposed to an oxidizing environment , it forms a layer of chrome oxide. Chrome oxide is a passivating film to some extent.
The big issue with salt water comes from the salt which is NACL primarily. Aluminum for example , forms the nice protective aluminum oxide film . The problem is that the NACL in water is a source for CL ions. These ions can cause the protective aluminum oxide film to break down by what is called a reduction reaction which is the exact opposite of an oxidation reaction. So the protective film is broken down and then both oxygen and the chloride ions can get at the base metal. The biggest problem is still not general corrosion of the surface. What happens is these metals will tend to form pits. The pit is almost like drilling through the material. very little metal is actually oxidized compared to what happens on the outside surface but when the pits form , all the oxidation takes place in that tiny little area of the pit. pits will cause aluminum and stainless to become porous with very little amount of metal corroded.
Titanium falls into the category of the stainless and aluminum in that it has the protective layer but that layer is subject to pitting. Titanium is much more resistant to pitting from chloride ions and so it appears to not be oxidizing at all.
Other than inert metals like gold , the metals that form a tightly adhered passivating film are the most corrosion resistant. I believe all of these passivating metals will be susceptable to some degree of pitting that varies depending on the exact negative ion available , such as the chloride ion in salt water.
the reason some "corrosion resistant" materials corrode under the rings and thread of guides is because of a phenomenon called concentration polarization. The builk of the fully exposed metal is at whatever level of polarization (galvanic current) determined by that metal and the solution (salt water or even air with moisture) the part that is wrapped has trapped some water and ions under it. This means that the whole exposed area of the guide is at one galvanic potential while the area under the thread is at a different galvanic potential because of the concentration of ions trapped below the thread. This potential difference leads to very accelerated corrosion of the metal under the thread. In addition to the concentration polarization , there is also a very large anode to cathode area causing the smaller area under the threads to corrode even faster.
anyway , that's a little about corrosion and why sea water is such a problem , even for metals like aluminum and stainless steel.
Posted November 12 2010 - 5:00 PM
Remind me to not buy used tackle for you
Here it is 5 years later, the rod has been fished many, many times, never washed off even once and .
Posted November 12 2010 - 6:43 PM
I'm copying that post and permanently storing it. Excellent explanation
Posted November 15 2010 - 10:16 PM
Excellent explanation. I have gathered scientific and anecdotal information and cobbled it together over time. Your explanation confirms a lot of what I have learned in a clear and concise way.
Posted November 17 2010 - 4:13 PM
Joe, I had a question about pricing. Why the 50% increase in price for the typhoon series over the virtus light or NIV series? In the small sizes there is not much of a difference, but the typhoon is about $30 more in the size 40. I do love the looks of the new series though.