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Rio Outbound vs. Outbound Short

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SanFranFlyFish

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Lastly, the Rio cold water and tropical OBs used to have different cores, but it would not surprise me they are now the same. Rio seems to be heading more and more into cross marketing the same line with two different names; for example, the new Bonefish Shooter is identical to the old Redfish, the new 2013 Redfish is identical to the Tarpon taper, and the new Tarpon Short is identical to the Tropical OB. But even if true, I don't see that an issue. I own both types and have fished both in warm and cold environments and can't really say there's significant casting difference. Good luck with your search.

 

Sorry, I totally misread the issue. There has never been a difference between the FW and CW Rio OB lines. Why should anyone think otherwise, the core is identical.The question should be is there a difference between the Tropical and the FW/CW. I don't know the answer but as I have already posted, it would not surprise there's no difference.

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I use Rio Outbound Short on a 9' 9wt Sage VT2 (medium fast action) for surf fishing. Rio says on the package: "A short head version ideal for wading anglers or for coping with tough winds and big flies when a short head is necessary. The head is only 30 feet long and ensures fast, one-shot casts for maximum distance...".

 

I do a lot of pickup and laydown casts. or roll cast, then pickup and laydown, 50-60 feet or less. The line's ideal for this kind of casting.

 

I read somewhere that the OBS is already overweighted, so the OBS 9wt line's head is made of heavier line than a standard 9 wt head. My interpretation is that the whole OBS 9wt 30 foot head has a total weight equal to a standard 9 wt 40 foot head. So there should be no need to overweight with the OBS, you would be double-overweighting.

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Looks like you've gotten all your questions answered.  I'll just add on to provide a little more confirmation.



 



Freshwater & Cold lines are exactly the same as you've already found out.



 



The 9wt OBS lines work well on the 9wt CC GLX.  As already stated, they are already overweighted a little over 2 times.  They need to be fished like you would a shooting head system. Get the head out with minimal overhang (on running line) & let fly.



 



OBS are very popular out here on the Delta.  I fish the floating & intermediate OBS.  I find it easier to turn over large flies with the OBS vs the Airflo Snipers.  The Snipers have more front taper which require more skill to cast in the wind.  If you plan to fish out West (Delta) you'll appreciate the ease with which you can turn over a OBS. 



 



For your fast sinking line, you could use a OBS, Sniper or T-14 head/running line combo.  I use 28' T-14 head & Airflo Ridge (intermediate) running line on my NRX - same setup I used to use on the CC GLX.

 


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With respect Mike, but your post is nonsensical. First, you rant your Sage 9WT (xi3??) is overloaded by a 9WT OBS, hence you condemn the OBS to specialized use. All that says to me is your rod is not a 11WT rod but might be really happy with 7 or 8WT OBS, similar to your really liking the OB on the same rod when over lined by one wt. or just evenly lined. The OB head is 7.5 feet longer than the 30 foot OBS head but line weight for line weight has the same head grain weight, so I believe you would change your characterization of the OBS on your rod if you give it the same under-lined chance you afforded the OB. I know I much prefer the OBS for fast cast sight fishing on the flats, especially for longer shots in the 70-80 foot range.

Again with respect Mike, you have lots of experience with the long rod, but your comments make me ask: are you trying to cast a short head shooting line like the OBS with any of the running line beyond the rod tip? That is a formula for disappointment.

 

Heh sightfisher,

 

No probs with your observations all very logical. Hell if we can't dissagree it would be sad.:) Ok my issue I guess is with tackle makers who have a long history of making claims that don't always stack up. Rio made the OBS to match as they put it modern fly rods that work better with a line that is two up from the rods rating. So I actually believe this marketing stuff and buy blind a 9wt OBS for my 9wt Xi2. It was like casting a club awful. Now my experience with the OB 37.5 foot lines was with my TH and the rationale for line selection with the OB was to get the heaviest line I could as none were really heavy enough to load my rod. At that time I was not casting OB on my single hand rods. It was the poor experience with the OBS that prompted me to be way more careful with OB line selection when I decided to use them on my SH rods. I found that my rods worked best with an OB that was one size that is Rio's size down or even two sizes down. So my Xi2 9wt works ok with an OB 8 line and my CTS 10 wt works ok with an OB 8 and 9 line. It is not automatically true that all rods like being up lined by two lines. They may well cast them but feel pretty horrible. The Xi2 9 wt was totally over loaded and would not cast for me.

I am not keen on short heads full stop as I am much happier putting more line into the air. With a 30 foot head I have to stop myself from putting more line into the air. I can advise that I did not put any more running line into the air that was required for casting. That would cause hinging issues on any line. Now I except that even with lines made to AFTM standards it can be necessary to go up or even down a line to match a given rod although none of my rods have needed this adjustment so if buying an OBS for the first time I think its important to understand you could quite easily over cook it and its not a cheap mistake to make.

Ok some more calibration is probably required. I like the feel of a rod that to some might be classed as under loaded. I like to have to look for the feel of the line in the air.I don't like the feel of a rod that has been slowed down by a line that to me is probably too much for it . Others like this kind of rod line feedback.

The other thing I did not like about the OBS 9wt is the huge diameter of the line., you gotta hope that your rod was fitted with big guides.

Rods and lines are personal choices and my opinion of short heavy heads is that I don't like them much others quite obviously do. But getting the odd negative feedback amongst the positive ones should at least alert our original poster to think for himself a little harder and not just take it for sure that his rated rod will go nicely with the same number OBS line. Long belly lines are normally better for long distance as they flight better but of course do not have the concentrated mass to carry big flies as well as short fat heads. For casts up to 60 feet with big flies then short heavy heads are good for a lot of guys. I might give these lines another go in the future should I need to cast huge flies with a SH.

 

Mike

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This is probably why Mike and I are so happy around each other.

:-)

 

Steve,

 

Just about the only thing we agree on is that we can't agree on much of anything related to fishing. And yet your style and approach fascinate me and I look forward to the time when one day we can share a days fishing and chewing the fat.

 

Mike

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My $.20 - slip-n-slide is correct.

For the purpose of this discussion there are three catagories:

1. Whole WF lines with 40'-42' heads.

2. Integrated SH with long head (37')

3. Intergrated SH with short head (30')

 

They all require different casting mechanics and you will have to dial each rod into them separately.

 

I like the RIO striper line with a 42' head for use on a beach that allows carrying a lot of line.

The RIO OB 37'6" head a good alternative - love it!

I like the RIO OB Short for steep beaches. Loads the rod fast and full. Not for a whimpy rod. But on the right rod it's lethal

 

A lot of people,including me, like the Wulff saltwater lines. Especially the Monocore (slime) lines They all have 30' heads and act a lot like integrated heads. That's why they load rods so well.

Regards,

Herb

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O.K. - just came back from the beach after testing new 9', #11 very moderate action rod - with both the RIO OB Short #10 and the 37'6" head in #11.

 

I got the same amount of distance - 90' with both. The #10 short loaded rod faster - of course - and if casted correctly came taught to the reel with more authority. The #11 37'6" head felt lighter while casting even though it is a heavier line.

 

I would take the short in windy conditions or casting larger flys and where the backcast room is compromised - like a steep beach. The 37'6" head felt more refined - if you can understand what I mean - and I think I would prefer this line for a nice walk down the beach.

 

I can see carrying both lines on an outing.

Herb

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just got back from my first experinece with the OBS. Rod: St.croix legend ultra 9' ten weight with OBS inter 425 grain. The line has the floating running line then the inter is 30'. I was casting a clouser for the most part. The wind was strong sw so it was a little sporty and I was on the beach. I found the best casts I got were when I used the method of casting upwards like Lefty Krey does in a video about casting sinking line. Much like casting the sinking line you can't do too much false casting (which I prefer not to do anyway). All in all just like anything else you have to get used to it. When i cast poorly I blame myself not the rod or the line. I will say that I was think about trying it with a 9 weight sage TCR but after reading this thread and trying it this morning I would think that would be a bad idea. I think I will like it all in all. Thanks for all you info and thanks to spig for a good deal.

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I picked up the other half of that deal, and cannot wait to try it ! The floating line that is, from Spig. I am trying to get the line stuff figured out, so appreciate all the informaiton in this thread. I have a Albright Tabory XX 10 weight. Feels a bit stiff, so perhaps the OBS will load nice on it Right now using Albright intermediat, and the other is the fast sinking lines. I am two years in, but totally hooked on the SW fly experience.

The other part i need to figure out is how the shooting head system is compared to the whole line OBS... Will hit Somerset for some research, bring the slush fund

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The other part i need to figure out is how the shooting head system is compared to the whole line OBS... Will hit Somerset for some research, bring the slush fund

 

When casting there is not much difference. Loop to loop connection between shooting head and shooting line makes some noise when it runs thru guides. When you haul and connection enters the rod tip you can feel it in line hand but it does not cause any harm for salt water rods. When you do fast haul before launch cast the whole shooting head needs to stay out of rod tip and this length of shooting line is called overhang. Long overhand seems to make line loop narrower and it improves cast and it also makes cast longer because there is longer line out already i.e. less shooting required.

 

Shooting heads cost only about half what full lines cost and you save more when you don't need spare spools. SHs are also less bulky and lighter to carry. If you build SHs yourself they can be really cheap. One feature which is easy to use with SH is turning head other way which sometimes change head behavior which can be used when conditions change. Thick end at front delivers bigger fly and also straightens easier to head wind. Thin end at front shoots far to tail wind and lands fly softly and Roll and Spey casts better but when front taper is long and thin it is useful with only smallish flyes.

 

Best shooting lines cast and fish better than which most WF line running lines do but they are not cheap. There are many brands of mono line which can be used as shooting line. Thin mono allows longest casts because it is light and slick so it robs less energy from shooted line loop but if it is too thin it stretch too much and makes it difficult to hook fish.

 

Esa

"Game fish are too valuable to be caught only once" 1939 Lee Wulff
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Quote:

Originally Posted by crunch View Post

 Long overhand seems to make line loop narrower and it improves cast and it also makes cast longer because there is longer line out already i.e. less shooting required.

 



 



While I agree with the above when using intermediate or floating heads/lines, I'd recommend caution when fishing heavy fast sink (T-14, etc) heads.  That longer overhang makes it harder to carry the head of the fast sinking line.  I get my best results with sinking heads with just enough running line out that it stays out the tip when hauling.  I'd guesstimate it is around 4' or so of overhang.



 



For clarification, I'm referring to approx. 330gr on an 8wt & 390gr on a 9wt. 


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IMO those weights are about 1.5 wt class over lined so naturally rod bends more and I guess you slow down false cast line speed as well because it is not beneficial to keep high line speed when casting short heads which lowers line travel path.

 

When I use short head and need longer cast I do faster back cast and shoot some running line just before launch cast. I think it is the only way to do longer cast with short head line.

 

I tried to say that usually it is not necessary to (forcefully) haul until whole head and some shooting line is out of rod tip so loop to loop connection is not a nuisance.

 

Esa

"Game fish are too valuable to be caught only once" 1939 Lee Wulff
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  • 5 months later...


Just tried an OBS 10 I/S on my 10/11 wt. GL3.  It has a 30' head and is 425 grains.  It seemed to overload the rod.  The Wulff 9 wt F/I shot pretty well though.  I have an SA Streamer Express 8 I/S (30' head, 300 grain) I think I will try next on the same rod.  Hopefully, it will shoot better than the OBS.


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Just tried an OBS 10 I/S on my 10/11 wt. GL3.  It has a 30' head and is 425 grains.  It seemed to overload the rod.  The Wulff 9 wt F/I shot pretty well though.  I have an SA Streamer Express 8 I/S (30' head, 300 grain) I think I will try next on the same rod.  Hopefully, it will shoot better than the OBS.

 

The OBS is way too heavy for the designated line rating IMO. However if you underline them they are great lines and cast miles. I use OBS 8wt on my 9wt CPS and love it.

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