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what do you think of that new cesspool law?


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#16 1dozenraw

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Posted April 05 2011 - 3:57 PM

I think there already is a mandatory statewide inspection every 3 years. Not positive, but thinks so... or else Charlestown and Green Hill are simply having their own based on state recommendations.


"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts" Jack Johnson.


#17 H'Islander

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Posted April 05 2011 - 4:29 PM

Duely noted - I don't live there so i don't have a view of the lawns - but te smell of low tide around my marina can get wrank and all the structures are hooked to the city of groton. I guess you folks know better, but my experience with the historical society and all the homes we've visited has never yeilded a smelly lawn.

Are you certain it's not waste treatment facility runoff piped through basin drains during overflow protection? It's legal in MA & CT...disgusting, but legal.


I am in perfect tune with the Earth - which is also bi-polar.

#18 Trigger

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Posted April 05 2011 - 4:40 PM

That just the thing: there are no public wastewater treatment facilities in the area. Confronted with this issue, the communities involved decided to install public water supplies to eliminate the drinking water polution risk rather than install the much more expensive municipal wastewater treatment systems.

This decision allowed the area to grow, as Kevin reported, from summer cottages to year-round homes with year-round sewage. What happened to Green Hill Pond is, again as Kevin reported, just awful -- and I do not doubt that that loss of habitat has affected striper populations. One of reasons why there are no fish in RI except for those passing through on way to Massachusetts.



#19 Saltwaterhabits

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Posted April 05 2011 - 4:41 PM

I think there already is a mandatory statewide inspection every 3 years. Not positive, but thinks so... or else Charlestown and Green Hill are simply having their own based on state recommendations.



....Every two years



#20 stripercrazy

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Posted April 06 2011 - 10:44 AM

she could have changed her sepic system at any time if she really cared but instead she waits then says what took so long blames some one else


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#21 1dozenraw

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Posted April 06 2011 - 11:46 AM

[quote=H'Islander;8270836
Are you certain it's not waste treatment facility runoff piped through basin drains during overflow protection? It's legal in MA & CT...disgusting, but legal.[/quote]Yup... because there is no waste treatment facility.


"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts" Jack Johnson.


#22 DanKing

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Posted April 06 2011 - 3:59 PM

This arguement has been going on since the early 1950's that I know of; maybe even earlier. Science or no science, it's pretty clear to me we simply can't continue crap in our own playground with the way the population is growing.


"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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#23 Parker650

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Posted April 06 2011 - 8:34 PM

Just a couple points...



* The facts are there regarding cesspools and the damage they do. Anyone that is an advocate of them (or just not changing them out in general) needs to wake up and stop drinking the kool aid.



* If a cesspool needs to be eliminated per DEM, it does not necessarily have to be removed requiring heavy equipment and/or structure or tree removal. Many cesspools are pumped, cleaned, and filled in place.



* There is a loan program through RI Housing called the Community Septic System Loan Program (CSSLP) that provides for low interest (2%) loans for septics, now known as Onsite Wastewater Treatment Systems (OWTSs), of up to $15,000.



* The denitrification systems work unbelievable well and have turned MANY formerly unbuildable lots into buildable. Depending on site conditions & system size, prices range from $20k to $45k. The overall benefits overall a traditional system are all there aside from the price tag.



As an environmental professional, I can see the burden it puts on homeowners and it really is too bad. But they really do need to go. The extension is a viable option that to me is reasonable. We all don't enjoy putting new roofs on our houses, but it happens...



#24 Trigger

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Posted April 06 2011 - 9:46 PM

Great Post

Just a couple points...

* The facts are there regarding cesspools and the damage they do. Anyone that is an advocate of them (or just not changing them out in general) needs to wake up and stop drinking the kool aid.

* If a cesspool needs to be eliminated per DEM, it does not necessarily have to be removed requiring heavy equipment and/or structure or tree removal. Many cesspools are pumped, cleaned, and filled in place.

* There is a loan program through RI Housing called the Community Septic System Loan Program (CSSLP) that provides for low interest (2%) loans for septics, now known as Onsite Wastewater Treatment Systems (OWTSs), of up to $15,000.

* The denitrification systems work unbelievable well and have turned MANY formerly unbuildable lots into buildable. Depending on site conditions & system size, prices range from $20k to $45k. The overall benefits overall a traditional system are all there aside from the price tag.

As an environmental professional, I can see the burden it puts on homeowners and it really is too bad. But they really do need to go. The extension is a viable option that to me is reasonable. We all don't enjoy putting new roofs on our houses, but it happens...



#25 H'Islander

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Posted April 08 2011 - 11:20 AM

Just a couple points..
* The facts are there regarding cesspools and the damage they do. Anyone that is an advocate of them (or just not changing them out in general) needs to wake up and stop drinking the kool aid....


Respectfully....

"The facts?" Or just "your facts?" As if the method to determine this issue used by your agency is the one reining authority for evaluating waste systems....While your facts indicate a dim view of every single cesspool in place there is evidence on other sides, or at least in other areas, that show no ill effects if the systems are functioning properly.

Our town holds public functions on historic properties that still have these systems that are subject to state health inspections. (no, the townies don't use the system, but they hold functions on the properties without restrictions, including food vendors) No stank, no squishy ground - you'd never know it was there.

I don't know if cesspools are affected differently in coastal regions because of local conditions, for all that I know that could very well be. But your reference to those who have evidence that contradicts your findings are "drinking the kool-aid" (still not 100% what the F'k that means...right up there with schiznit or other popular jargon I suppose...) is short-sighted. At least I can ackowledge that differences in how a system might act in one area or another might be a reality....But I guess us non-eco-professionals are just ig'nant bumpkins....

It sounds like folks in the environmental business would rather we all run around in circles with our hands in the air screaming like frightened school girls, while they lobby for legislated forced spending of other people's money without individual evaluation for need (key word) just because one report or one methodology of testing screams armageddon...

I'll believe the observations made by folks with their feeet on the ground of isolated areas before I'll believe some blanket mandate regurgitated by the DEM/DEP minions.

Someone else's comment about if they can afford coatal property they can afford to replace a waste management system is also short-sighted. Many middle class folks inherit legacy properties that have been in their families LONG before it was fashionable to live near a destructive force like the Atlantic...

While I admit to being a very opinionated person, I at least attempt to look beyond the conventions that I grew up with or those fed to me in textbooks. Hell, I'm taking a Latin history class now from a teacher who thinks Castro's groupie Che was a candidate for sainthood. People can believe all kinds of really strange stuff...


I am in perfect tune with the Earth - which is also bi-polar.

#26 Parker650

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Posted April 08 2011 - 1:34 PM

H'Islander. Point taken...I'm not going to get in a pissing match over your opinion, just show me factual evidence proving that cesspools are not a liability and I'll eat crow. You are correct that not all cesspools are currently not functioning properly, site conditions and what it consists of will dictate and they are different on every site. When a conventional system fails, you are typically dealing with greywater that already has had some form of treatment and digestion and have some time to remediate the problem before it becomes a health hazard. However, when a cesspool fails, you then have a high probability (if not a guarantee) of raw, untreated wastewater (for lack of a better term) which in itself is a health hazard, to flow onto and/or into the ground or groundwater, surface water, brooks, streams, the Bay, etc. When it happens, there is no time to remediate and you now have a direct dose of fecal coliform contaminating a waterbody that someone fishes from or groundwater that someone drinks from. Keep in mind that you may not be able to tell that it is failing or failed, it doesn't have to overflow or spill before it's considered failed or failing. It's really not that hard to comprehend...




Quote:







But I guess us non-eco-professionals are just ig'nant bumpkins....


Nobody is calling anyone ig'nant bumpkins...but if you insist that the cesspool notion is one big smokescreen based on unfounded beliefs, you might begin to paint that picture yourself...




Quote:







It sounds like folks in the environmental business would rather we all run around in circles with our hands in the air screaming like frightened school girls, while they lobby for legislated forced spending of other people's money without individual evaluation for need (key word) just because one report or one methodology of testing screams armageddon...


Uneducated statement. It has nothing to do with the 'folks in the environmental business'...they are a liability that the State has identified as such. It's their mandate, for a reason. Read up on TMDL's in PJ Pond, Ninigret or Quonny Pond...Do you think that we are the only state that regulates cesspools?




Quote:







I'll believe the observations made by folks with their feeet on the ground of isolated areas before I'll believe some blanket mandate regurgitated by the DEM/DEP minions.


For the record, I work for a municipality and not DEM nor a minion of. But once again, you think this is some hair-brain scheme that the State has come up with because they 'felt like it' without scientific evidence? You should really make an effort to stop sounding like an over-protective cesspool owner, it's doing nothing for your argument.



And for the record, there is no DEP in this state...but I'm sure you knew that.



Cesspool Phase Out Info



#27 H'Islander

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Posted April 08 2011 - 1:43 PM

And for the record, there is no DEP in this state...but I'm sure you knew that


I'm in CT - CT has DEP, RI has DEM ... See what I mean about picking your nose up off the ground?


I am in perfect tune with the Earth - which is also bi-polar.

#28 Parker650

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Posted April 08 2011 - 1:56 PM

Isn't this post about the Rhode Island DEM Cesspool Phaseout Act? I didn't realize the DEM & DEP were in cohoots...



#29 H'Islander

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Posted April 08 2011 - 8:31 PM

Look, parker-dude, I really do respect your position (really) - a failing cesspool systtem is an environmental butt-phuq. I'm only trying to keep people's vision on the horizon - to see all the data. I believe you and Kev and the others chiming in on a problem that is affecting the bayhave a valid concern - I support hammering folks that turn a blind eye to the negative affects of antiquated logistics in an ecologically sensitive area/region. But I passionately oppose blanket legislation which affects responsible folks that don't have tens of thousands of dollars at their disposal to placate popular or political hysteria.


I am in perfect tune with the Earth - which is also bi-polar.

#30 HugeDinghy

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Posted April 11 2011 - 8:17 AM

you guys fight a lot.....




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