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Water Line Trouble


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#1 bido

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Posted March 06 2011 - 3:22 PM

So this is the main water feed line coming into my house through the slab of a house built in 1927.
I think from having a wet basement from high water table over the years, especially in this corner of the basement, the galvanized pipe has corroded away where it meets the cement floor. It is still intact, but significantly thinner than the rest of the pipe and rusted/pitted.
If this thing goes one day, I can only imagine what a disaster it would be (water under pressure entering basement w/ no way to turn it off, except by the water company coming out. Honestly I think if I kicked it hard enough I could snap it right off at the foundation.

I think I have three options:
1- Replace entire line from street to house, most expensive, least preferred. Would need to dig up landscaping and porch potentially (very bad situation).
2- Jack out cement around line to elbow beneath slab and try to tap into/couple to lateral from street (no reason to believe line from street is not sound.
3- Since this pipe is eroding from the outside inward, build up existing pipe with putty or sealant that would stop the corrision and enforce the pipe on the outside (almost like plugging a leaking pipe)- most preferred option if possible.

Any plumbers have any thoughts on this one??
Thanks.


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#2 5/0

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Posted March 06 2011 - 3:29 PM

I believe the town is responsible for that.



#3 bido

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Posted March 06 2011 - 3:32 PM

I believe the town is responsible for that.

The town/water co is only responsible for the main. The private connections to individual homes are the homeowners responsibility where I live. Since this is not even a problem related to the lateral under my lawn, I think I am definitely on the hook for this one.


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#4 The Riddler

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Posted March 06 2011 - 4:04 PM

I agree. It would be good practice to take that out now. I get calls for galvi and lead water mains. I sub the work out to a general contractor I know with a back ho. In the Boston area you have to be bonded to dig a side walk and make the connections to the main. I don't want that liability. He is responsible for digging, making the connection, back-filling and patching. He will run soft roll copper type K, minimum size 3/4" to the basement and then I take over from there. I solder a ball valve on first thing and then put an air test on it to 130lbs and then call for inspection.
Nothing free in the city and towns anymore. Most cities command a fee just to come shut your water off and then another fee to turn it back on. That's why changing out the old valves before the meter is over 500 bucks now. People flip their lids when I tell them that.


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#5 mybeach

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Posted March 06 2011 - 4:20 PM

Any pipe in direct contact with concrete will corrode over time. I've read that plastic conduit should be used where the pipe passes through the concrete.



#6 shbeachbum

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Posted March 06 2011 - 4:37 PM

1- Replace entire line from street to house, most expensive, least preferred. Would need to dig up landscaping and porch potentially (very bad situation).


You wouldn't have to dig out the old line,just cut it and see if a plumber could snake a copper line thru next to it. I had to replace my main water line (plastic) with copper and that is what a guy from the water co. did many years ago.

My daughter bought an older house with galvanized piping and her father-in-law replaced them with copper. The old piping was like a clogged artery which reduces water pressure and I feel contaminates the water you use.

I use a good & honest plumber and if you want his number, PM me.



#7 bido

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Posted March 06 2011 - 4:39 PM

I agree. It would be good practice to take that out now. I get calls for galvi and lead water mains. I sub the work out to a general contractor I know with a back ho. In the Boston area you have to be bonded to dig a side walk and make the connections to the main. I don't want that liability. He is responsible for digging, making the connection, back-filling and patching. He will run soft roll copper type K, minimum size 3/4" to the basement and then I take over from there. I solder a ball valve on first thing and then put an air test on it to 130lbs and then call for inspection.

Nothing free in the city and towns anymore. Most cities command a fee just to come shut your water off and then another fee to turn it back on. That's why changing out the old valves before the meter is over 500 bucks now. People flip their lids when I tell them that.


Thanks
Do you run the line through the foundation side wall or up through the floor like this one?


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#8 bido

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Posted March 06 2011 - 4:42 PM

You wouldn't have to dig out the old line,just cut it and see if a plumber could snake a copper line thru next to it. I had to replace my main water line (plastic) with copper and that is what a guy from the water co. did many years ago

I use a good & honest plumber and if you want his number, PM me.


So he cut the old pipe and ran the new copper through your plastic line?
I didn't think of that one. That would be the way to go.
I don't mine running a new line, but the cost and disruption of digging up the yard, landscaping, and porch would be a nightmare scenario. If someone could snake copper through the old galvanized run underground that would be the way to go. I may take you up on the plumber contact. Thanks


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#9 shbeachbum

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Posted March 06 2011 - 4:48 PM

So he cut the old pipe and ran the new copper through your plastic line?
I didn't think of that one. That would be the way to go.
I don't mine running a new line, but the cost and disruption of digging up the yard, landscaping, and porch would be a nightmare scenario. If someone could snake copper through the old galvanized run underground that would be the way to go. I may take you up on the plumber contact. Thanks


The plumber I use now did not do the job. Who ever you use, see if the snake procedure is feasible. You may have galvanized all the way and that may not be possible. Good luck but I would not wait too long if the pipe is as bad as you say.Find the shut off at the curb just in case.



#10 speedracer

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Posted March 06 2011 - 4:50 PM

Pipes corrode faster when they are embedded in concrete, so I would break up the slab around the pipe to see how bad it is below the slab. You might be able to simply cut out the corroded pipe and add a new section


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#11 The Riddler

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Posted March 06 2011 - 5:14 PM

Thanks
Do you run the line through the foundation side wall or up through the floor like this one?

I'll pass the water main through a sleeve in the foundation wall or up through a concrete floor that will also have a sleeve. In residential I can use PVC as the sleeve. In Commercial I use Galvi Pipe. Both are cut to fit and extend just beyond the wall or floor.
To water-proof the gap around the pipe at the foundation I use a link seal. It will slide over the pipe and expand by a socket and make a water tight seal. If you have a water problem in that basement it may be wise to install a second link seal coming through the floor.
When excavating the contractor will get a good look at the foundation and see how he can do the job and satisfy local codes and do the job right. Sometimes you have to core a new hole and sleeve it.


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#12 coppertrout

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Posted March 06 2011 - 5:16 PM

in the past i have attached the new water line to the existing on the horizontal run out of the basement. had a back hoe dig out by the curb, then pull the old line out while dragging the new one with it. i've done it with both "K" copper and 200lb poly. it works very easy if the new line is a smaller diameter.



#13 bido

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Posted March 06 2011 - 5:18 PM

I'll pass the water main through a sleeve in the foundation wall or up through a concrete floor that will also have a sleeve. In residential I can use PVC as the sleeve. In Commercial I use Galvi Pipe. Both are cut to fit and extend just beyond the wall or floor.



To water-proof the gap around the pipe at the foundation I use a link seal. It will slide over the pipe and expand by a socket and make a water tight seal. If you have a water problem in that basement it may be wise to install a second link seal coming through the floor.



Thanks what is the min depth below grade for the copper in the ne?


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#14 The Riddler

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Posted March 06 2011 - 5:31 PM

Thanks what is the min depth below grade for the copper in the ne?

After a quick google search for New Jersey code I found 42" for water, 24" for sewer.
Confirm with your local jurisdiction.


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#15 The Riddler

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Posted March 06 2011 - 5:34 PM

in the past i have attached the new water line to the existing on the horizontal run out of the basement. had a back hoe dig out by the curb, then pull the old line out while dragging the new one with it. i've done it with both "K" copper and 200lb poly. it works very easy if the new line is a smaller diameter.

That would be sweet if you could do that.


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