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To glue knots, or not to glue? 'Tis the ?


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#1 BrianBM

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Posted October 17 2010 - 08:11 PM

I have had different opinions on gluing knots from different sources.

MaxG, in a thread below, opines that knots should be glued. I believe Loctite 404 was the glue under discussion.

Two or three years ago I got a Momentum 7, a big reel sized for smaller tuna, on closeout from one of the big discount boxes. I had it loaded at Bear's Den with the recommended backing (Jerry Brown GsP, I believe, and 50 lb.) and an intermediate fly line. I never did get out for the trip being contemplated. However, I also had another reel stripped of backing and reloaded. The prior owner had superglued the Bimini Twist he'd used to double the backing for a loop. The store personnel said this was bad, as it costs the BT valuable elasticity.

It occurs to me that perhaps there are knots that should be glued, and those that shouldn't. Possibly GsP responds differently then dacron; perhaps hollow dacron responds differently the solid. I don't have the experience to have an opinion, so I throw this out to the Forum for comment. What knots can be glued, and what knots should not be?

#2 CTaylor

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Posted October 17 2010 - 08:32 PM

..........didn't you start enought trouble with the last thread....
It has always been my private conviction that any man who pits his intelligence against a fish and loses has it coming. ~John Steinbeck

#3 wjc

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Posted October 17 2010 - 08:51 PM

The only ones I glue are those that are going through the guides, like the ends of backing or line splices, to help them get through the guides easier and without abraiding the connection or the guides appreciably.

Cheers,
Jim

#4 HL

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Posted October 17 2010 - 09:20 PM

I was told never to use crazy glue - makes line brittle.

I use pliobond on Dacron knots - Bimini's and nail knots to back-end of fly running line

I use Loon UV to lubricate while setting barrel knots in tapered leaders and then set with UV lamp.

I also use loon for nail knot to front of fly line. I "massage" the Loon UV into the lays before I cinch knot so cement fully penetrates.
Herb

#5 preast

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Posted October 17 2010 - 11:54 PM

Super glues are not really waterproof and don't hold after a while. The only one I'm aware of that works in water is zap-a-gap, but like someone said, it can be brittle like superglue. Works in some applications but probably none for saltwater.

#6 Maxg

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Posted October 18 2010 - 01:34 AM

Well, I put a glued splice in my chlorinated swimming pool for 72 hours and then hung it up in the summer sun with a 20lb load on it for 72 hours and it tested 100%. Actually I did it three times. Same result 100%.
I tested glued knots, many types to destruction, 406 glued knots tested 100%.
But you can get a waterproofer to put on Loctite 406 glued joints. If you want.
I've heard all the objections, and over 3 years I tested GsP to submission.
So as a result I use Loctite 406 CA glue, where a glue is needed, it gives me a 100% system for as long as it takes to go fishing for a day, or a month.
I use Coaxial Splices to terminate my GsP braid, like Bionic Braid 30lb, which because of smart producers and developers made the b/s 42lb to suit SWF systems on big fish. Check with Rod Harrison he had both hands into the development.
For the big bust guys 50lb BB breaks at 72lb. Very thin stuff.
I'm a bit of a dill but I don't build SWF systems that are going to fragment the very first fish I hook.
You can believe it or not, don't care a hoot. I know what is on my fly outfit and I'll chuck it at anything anywhere. And I don't give a dam what it is, Whale shark even. Off rocks, boats, jetties wherever.
Are you so sure of your system.
Before I used GsP I put in 3 years testing every aspect of it, that I could think of, and currently my system, I've said this before, has a 42lb break backing line, a 80lb Monc GsP runner, a SA 45' 12# shooting head and up to the head, stretch is 7.6%, break is 42lb (backing) there are NO knots anywhere outside the leader, and backing terminations are Coaxial Splices.
The reel backing load is high tension, cross hatched and the reel holds 1000 yards of 42 BB. The system is designed so that the backing remains on the reel unless a fish takes it off. The running line is 100 feet, the head 45' and the backing never gets off the reel during casting. It's GsP, it HAS TO STAY ON THE REEL until its used.
You cannot cast a SWF system 150 feet, nor can I.
The leader is a twisted 20lb system, designed as a shock buffer to stop fish head shake shocks breaking things.
If there is going to be a bust up, its going to be on that 20lb tippet.
I use DH rods, the design was for a CTS 10/11 12 footer GDE 750/1000gns but I can use a TFO 11' 9#switch GDE 500/700gns which I have ready to go. Or a TFO 12x12, Talon RA 14 footer or a Talon 15 footer.
This is basic off rocks stuff. Which if it is to work, has to be pretty technical and not full of furfy and myths.
I don't want to waste a 1000km drive to fish a rock and watch the system fragment instantly. That happened to me just once, well known brand rod, instant first cast failure. Cost over $1000 buks. Never again.
MaxG.

#7 BrianBM

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Posted October 18 2010 - 06:07 AM

That would indeed be maddening. "Bit of a dill?" Must be a specifically Oz phrase.

#8 sms

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Posted October 18 2010 - 08:47 AM


Quote:








Originally Posted by Maxg
View Post

You cannot cast a SWF system 150 feet, nor can I.




I wouldn't bet on that if I were you. I am pretty sure I can cast that with 15ft rod and 45ft of 18+ Express as it will be 810grains. Of course, it depends on quite a lot on the fly how far the thing will go.

I know I can spey cast over 160ft with a 15ft rod and a floating head of around 1000grains, head length being from around 75ft to 82ft.

This glue thing is interesting, I will do some tests today. I don't have 406 but I do have CA with quite low viscosity for decent infiltration.

#9 teedee

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Posted October 18 2010 - 09:32 AM

I use UV Knotsense on the loop in the backing, the rear of the flyline, and the front loop in the flyline. With shooting heads on any knot that goes through the guides.

#10 flymann

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Posted October 18 2010 - 10:23 AM

I have never used any type of glue on any of my knots. I can't remember the last time I had a knot fail me. With the exception of pulling a snagged fly.
Fly fishing is the pursuit of what is elusive yet attainable a perpetual series of occasions for hope.

#11 Maxg

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Posted October 18 2010 - 10:56 AM

SMS... Off an ocean rock into ocean water.
Just for the record Rod Harrison has a book at the publishers on the GsP thing, and he was directly involved with Bionioc Braid development. So he knows what is what. I suggest you guys get one each. You never know it might just help.
MaxG.

#12 likwid

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Posted October 18 2010 - 11:00 AM

Jerry Brown hollow should be spliced, not knotted.
Its a waste of money to put knots in it.
And no need for glue.
The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

#13 Maxg

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Posted October 18 2010 - 11:04 AM

Brian..... Means a crazy bastard. OK.
I gave Rod Harrison a bit of a lead up on these posts, he might appear. Got a pretty big rep here in OZ. Local hero.
Cheers MaxG.

#14 Maxg

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Posted October 18 2010 - 11:05 AM

Brian whats your Email ADDy. Kax

#15 Lineas Tenso

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Posted October 18 2010 - 11:13 AM

I use the MaxG system with Bionic Braid (the pink stuff) on a Tibor Pacific and two Gulfstream reels. To date I've had tarpon, sailfish and marlin do their worst with no failures after three years of using this system.

The only fly in the ointment is finding a source for the Loctite 406, wife cleaning out the frig, and having the patience to allow the glue time to warm up before using it. In my "possibles" bag there is a a spare spool of BB with co-axial loops as back up.

My knot testing rig is simple: a plank of pine wood with a eye bolt in its center. The eye of the bolt was pried open to allow the loop to slip into the eye. I stand with my feet on either side of the eye bolt and with leather gloves on I rear up until the knot holds or fails.
ONE FROM THE BEACH IS WORTH TEN FROM A BOAT