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Hobie Outback - Average speed vs other Yaks


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#1 irwin1951

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Posted June 27 2010 - 6:58 PM

Peddling for two years and love the engineering of the Mirage Drive - Outback, Turbo fins/Sail rudder - this year got a Cuda 350 GPS/Fishfinder trying to figure out more features on this thing every time I go out. GPS speed shows on a easy to moderate pace a 3.5MPH. Heavy pace pedal can sprint 5.+MPH. What do ya think - slow - average - fast ? My son wasnt impressed at all with it's speed - hull design is the main factor of the speed of a water craft - what kind of speed are you guys getting in your rides - peddle or paddle???? - Thanks -

#2 126andy

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Posted June 27 2010 - 7:08 PM

5+ on the water is an impressive speed. I am impressed with my Hobie Outback I never checked the speed but it seems at a fast peddle it's more than 5mph. The most impressive part of it is how far you can travel and come back with very little energy used.
I'm sure that Barrell will chime in here sometime today. He is pretty much an expert on these Hobies since that's what he deals with all of the time. I'm sure that if you check youtube you will find someone that has done all kinds of speed ratings on them.

I know that if you get going and then turn the rudder all the way one way or the other you can throw up a pretty good wake.

Remember the old VW bugs when you could yank up the emergency brake and hit the gas? Sort of the same thing
My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my short-term memory's not as sharp as it used to be
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#3 killie

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Posted June 27 2010 - 7:28 PM

I love my big A

#4 Just4fun

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Posted June 27 2010 - 8:53 PM

Don't know what you guys are comparing it to,..but my Outback is a slug as far as speed goes!! It's short, wide & heavy which just equates to a slow ride,...peddle or paddle, it gets smoked by most any yak that's longer & sleeker!! On the upside,..that wide & heavy also equates to a lot of stability and a very dry ride,..so it's all a tradeoff and I certainly enjoy fishing out of it, but it just isn't very fast from here to there!

#5 yak_angler

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Posted June 27 2010 - 10:21 PM

I have to agree. Love my outback, but if I had to do it all over again, I'd get the revolution. OUtback was my first kayak, so I wanted stability over all other factors - I got stability over all other factors.

It is an great fishing platform, but I do have a difficult time keeping up with some paddle guys and the guys in revos. I will most likely keep the outback for inshore work, sell a sport that was originally to be my wife's, and pick up a revo for the offshore work and long distance trips.

#6 DMacLeod

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Posted June 28 2010 - 3:54 AM

I have a revolution and 5 mph isn't hard to do. Now if it is choppy prepare to get wet. The Revo is no where near as dry as the Outback. The outback is also more stable.

#7 lazzyone

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Posted June 28 2010 - 5:06 AM

Can't tell you actual speed, but mine is plenty fast. Had a prowler 15 before this and I feel like it's faster than that was. The big difference is that I can have a day out on the water fishing and not feel shot. Also turbo fins are the only way to go.
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#8 barrell

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Posted June 28 2010 - 6:30 AM

The Outback is probably the fastest 34 inch kayak on the water. Its also probably the driest 34 kayak on the water and has the best layout for fishermen. On top of all that you can fish from it instead of paddling. Whenever you gain any advantage you give up something else. That is true in life wether you are talking about a mattress a TV or a wife. Ill take the slower, drier,stable, great layout of the Outback any day over a fast paddle yak. When Im fishing speed is not an isue.
BARRELL

#9 ScottO

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Posted June 28 2010 - 10:30 AM

Tarpon 160i - easily 5, trying to recall if I got her over 6. I seem to recall I could for sprinting, but it is a dopey paddle yak so can only maintain it as long as the arms hold out
 

 


#10 Lurch

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Posted June 28 2010 - 6:34 PM


Quote:








Originally Posted by irwin1951
View Post

Peddling for two years and love the engineering of the Mirage Drive - Outback, Turbo fins/Sail rudder - this year got a Cuda 350 GPS/Fishfinder trying to figure out more features on this thing every time I go out. GPS speed shows on a easy to moderate pace a 3.5MPH. Heavy pace pedal can sprint 5.+MPH. What do ya think - slow - average - fast ? My son wasnt impressed at all with it's speed - hull design is the main factor of the speed of a water craft - what kind of speed are you guys getting in your rides - peddle or paddle???? - Thanks -




Hi irwin1951,
I'm a kayaker, not a sailor but looking through a book on sailing (to learn about weather & tides etc) I came across a sailing term I found very interesting which is refered to a "max hull speed".
Apparently all displacement boats ( i.e. those that go through the water rather than plane, or skip over the waves ) have a theoretical maximum speed.
I dont remember the exact details but basically displacement boats push a wave in front of them. Obviously the faster the boat goes the faster the wave, and faster waves have longer wavelengths. For some reason once the wave length is the same length as the water line length of the boat, then the wave can't be pushed along any faster. Pushing harder then just makes the wave in front of the boat higher and higher, hence harder to push.
At this speed ( the Max Hull Speed ) the only way to go faster is to push so hard that the boat climbs over the wave, and leaves it behind and skips over the waves ( starts to plane ).

So as a boat speeds up and starts to approach this "max hull speed" limit the effort needed starts to rapidly increase out of all proportion to the extra speed obtained.

Once the boat is up "on plane" then less effort is needed. But to get a boat on plane and keep it there requires a powerful engine or big sails, a good wind and a light boat.

Kayaks are really displacement boats , so the same affect applies.

The formula for max hull speed is simple:-
Max Hull Speed knots = 1.34 times (square root of water line lenth in feet) or
Max Hull Speed mph = 1.54 times (square root of water line length in feet ).

So for your Hobie ( 12ft 1 ) if we assume a water line leghth of 11.5 feet.

Max Hull Speed mph = 1.54 times ( square root 11.5 ) = 5.22 mph.
Spookily close to the figure you are recording.

I have experimented in my old scrambler using a gps to record speed and could exceeed its max hull speed, but only for a few seconds. The effort required was massive. IMHO anyone who can keep a kayak on plane for much time at all is really a terminator disguised as an angler.

Since I found out about this effect I stopped wasting effort trying to fight the natural limit of my yak and now just happily cruise at a speed sufficiently below the max for minimal effort. I also try stay well away from anywhere where wind and tide might create a current near my max speed.

- Regards Lurch
"We are all artists when we pick up a rod, and what we tie on the end is our paintbrush." - Russ Bassdozer

#11 ScottO

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Posted June 28 2010 - 7:19 PM


Quote:








Originally Posted by Lurch
View Post





Kayaks are really displacement boats , so the same affect applies.












I do not believe they are displacement hulls, only poorly motorized. The yak, if you stick a big enough propulsion system on it, will get to a plane and stay there, and that means no limit on speed. we are just not good engines
 

 


#12 speedracer

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Posted June 28 2010 - 7:34 PM

If you want speed, buy the Adventure. If you want stability you buy the Outback. I've had 2 Outbacks ,but I liked the speed of the Adventure and sold the Outbacks.
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#13 blaminack

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Posted June 28 2010 - 7:43 PM

That is some really great info Lurch. I am not sure that every kayak is a displacement hull. A Tarpon for example would get on a plane quite easy on the face of a wave for example. Displacement hulls like the Outback are not so good in bigger surf because of hull shape in my opinion. BTW I have a Quest, Outback, Ride 135 and a Tarpon 120.

#14 rrdstarr

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Posted June 29 2010 - 4:08 AM

OK Trident Prowler 13 I was trolling at 2 kph and paddling at 4 kph to move to different places. I am not in a hurry to go fast anywhere. Stability is the most important thing.
-Rick
Ocean Kayak Prowler Trident Angler 13
Humminbird 160 FF

#15 kross57

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Posted June 29 2010 - 5:44 AM

I believe Lurch is correct, yaks and canoes have displacement hulls and have theroretical maximum hull speeds. However, really strong paddlers can exceed that speed. Olympic competitors and racers do it all the time.

And it's not all about "speed". Longer kayaks like the Adventure, Tarpon 160, Phoenix 160 and Kaskazi are much easier to get from point A to Point B. I like that! Less effort and higher cruising speeds. Of course you pay for that because they are tougher to handle off the water.

Other factors do influence relative speed like hull width (wider = slower), hull material (fiberglass, kevlar and thermoformed plastic are better), and hull shape.

Fun to discuss and good stuff to know.