i know i've seen it before. but never paid attention to how to do it.
but how do you make a loop at the end of the fly line where you attach the leader to it.
someone did it for me twice before using mono to tie the knot (or whatever you'd like to call it) with the fly line as the loop.
fly line was cut at the loop, because i did something stupid. now i gotta fix it.
fly line loop/knot
Posted April 13 2008 - 1:08 PM
i know i've seen it before. but never paid attention to how to do it.
Posted April 13 2008 - 1:30 PM
What weight line and is it a sinker, floater, sink tip etc?
Many ways to skin this cat...
You can do a spliced, braided mono end loop, a nail knotted mono butt loop, a loop made from the end of the fly line ...
Posted April 13 2008 - 1:37 PM
and i'm trying to figure out the loop made from the end of the fly line.
Posted April 13 2008 - 2:47 PM
internet explorer works with that page.
it's not a perfection loop.
my mind is blank when it comes to how it was done.
but someone did it for me. using mono and tying it around a loop formed by the fly line.
Posted April 13 2008 - 2:56 PM
Double over end of flyline into a loop. I like a loop a little around 1/2" long. Tie 2 10-turn nailknots (google it) with 10-12lb mono spaced about 1/8" apart. Make sure your nail knots are nice and neat; and the wraps are nice and tight + not crossed over or anything. I usually coat knots with just a tiny bit of Aquaseal to protect mono and smooth transition-you don't need much. Good luck
Posted April 13 2008 - 3:05 PM
Originally Posted by Old Man
,,,yet to have this one open up on me....
The knot you are talking about is a whipped end loop.
Get some 20 lb dacron or braid, tie a surgeons knot in a couple of feet of the braid/dacron, so you have a big circle.
Pull the line up into its self to make a hitch around the fly line about 4" from the tip and tighten the hitch.
Now, yank hard to strip the coating off the core.
This will give you a section of fly line core from which you can make the loop.
Double the tag over the line to make a loop the desired size, and whip about 20 turns of thread around the fly line and the core ( I use kevlar fly tying thread on the tying bobbin), fold the tag back over the whip turns and wrap back over the whole mess. Make a whip finish and coat with Aqua Seal or Good Year Pliobond.
There are several methods of making and attaching loops to fly lines. Most work. Some are better than others. Probably the oldest and most used loop connection is the wrapped or "served" loop, which is formed by stripping the coating off the fly line, doubling back the core braid onto the fly line itself to form a loop and then wrapping it to the line with thread from a twirling fly tying bobbin, finally coating the wraps with a flexible cement. Some anglers donâ€™t even bother stripping off the line-coating. Both techniques produce a friction-held loop and it works for small game. But when used for big game, it can fail due to slippage or from the loop breaking. The core of most fly lines rarely exceeds 30-pound-test and is usually weaker.
This method was improved by Russ Peak years ago when he started using the "Rush Peak Sewn Splice". Russ would either double back the core as described above, or would lay a loop of heavier nylon or Dacron over the lineâ€™s end and then would stitch through all with a needle and a doubled length of nylon fly tying thread. He made sure the needle passed dead center through both legs of the loop and the fly line core with each stitch. It only took a few stitches to make one of the smallest yet strongest line loops ever. The splice was finished by wrapping several layers of thread over the stitched area and then coated with flexible cement. I used this technique for years to form line loops. The downside to the sewn loop was that it was time-consuming and didnâ€™t work as well with some of the new braided mono-core fly lines.
Others found success with just doubling over the fly line to form a loop, securing it with a couple of monofilament trap nail knots. This one held vise-like, but because of its diameter, went through the guides like a wench line loop. It was a good "field expedience loop", though, if you needed to place a loop in a line quickly and didnâ€™t have other materials to work with.
The Best Loop For Fly Lines Today
For most line sizes, myself and many other bluewater fly anglers, prefer making leader, backing, shooting head and shooting line loops from 50-pound braided mono. The 50-pound braid affords the greatest strength, abrasion resistance and will still slip cleanly and quietly through the guides without hinging.
Cortland and Gudebrod each make a quality braided monofilament. I personally prefer Gudebrod because it has a tighter braid. You can purchase Cortland braided mono in both 30- and 50-pound test from just about any Cortland pro shop. Gudebrod comes in 35- and 50-pound test, and is easily obtained from a variety of marine tackle catalogs or you can order it from outfitters like World Wide Sportsman, San Jose Fly Shop and Marriott's.
Making The Braided Mono Loop
Making braided loops is not complicated. In fact they are easier and faster to make and install than any of the previously mentioned techniques.
As a rule-of-thumb, small diameter (about an inch) loops are used as leader and shooting head attaching loops, larger (6- to 8-inch) diameter loops are used for fly line backing and shooting line attaching loops. The larger loop facilitates the passing through of a coiled shooting head, full line or a fly reel, which expedites fly line or shooting line changes.
There are a couple of ways to make a loop in braided mono. There is what we call a single-catch loop and a double-catch loop. Trust me, use only the double-catch loop. It will not slip. Single catch loops frequently fail.
In order to make a braided fly line loop you will need a splicing tool which is easily fashioned from a 12- to 14-inch length of #3 to #5 single strand wire. Fold the wire in half, forming a tight needle point at the apex of the bend. Shaping the needle point in the fashion of a fly tierâ€™s bobbin threader makes the perfect splicing tool. At the opposite end of the wire needle, Haywire twist on a large barrel swivel, something to grab hold of.
You will also need a large, tapered bodkin or needle to be used to open the end of the braided loop sleeve, into which the end of the fly line or shooting line will be inserted using the "inch worm" method, inching the line into the hollow core of the braided mono until it enters the core of the inner tag braid (see illustrations).
To form a small diameter loop for leaders and shooting heads, youâ€™ll need a length of braided mono 12 inches long. Larger diameter loops require a length about 30 inches long. The reason for this extra length is to provide a sleeve that will slip over the fly line end at least 8 inches. Because the loop sleeve grips the fly line tightly via the Chinese Finger Trap principle, you probably could get by with just three or four inches of sleeve over the line. In my experience, however, particularly with mono-core fly lines or thinly coated shooting lines, more sleeve length means better gripping with less chance of failure. Some folks use two or more trap nail knots to secure the braided loop to the fly line and some go further by coating the entire loop sleeve with Plyobond or other flexible cement. Use only one trap nail knot where the line enters the sleeve and only coat the single knot and a small area where the fly line enters the inner core braid. Coating the entire sleeve negates the finger trap principle which is what holds the loop to the line. Any additional nail knots are overkill.
The following is how to make a braided mono loop using a wire needle as described.
Start (right-handers) by inserting the splicing needle into the length of braided mono about 1-1/2 to 2 inches from the right hand end as it lays in front of you. Push the needle into the braid about 1-1/2 inches toward the long end.
Push the needle through the wall of the braid and then insert the end of the long end of the braided mono into the needle opening. Now pull the long end into the core of the braid and continue pulling until you have pulled it completely through and back out of the braidâ€™s core.
Once you have the size loop size you desire. You will now have the 1-1/2 to 2-inch tag end sticking out from the side of the point where the long end comes out of the braided mono core.
Re-insert the needle at a point about 1 to 1-1/2 inches below the short tag and run it into the core toward the tag to a point just below where the tag protrudes. Push the needle through the braid wall. Insert the tag end into the needle opening and then pull the tag back inside the braidâ€™s core and back out through the wall, following the needle.
You will now have a shorter tag remaining outside of the braid. Pull on that tag just a little to shorten it and then cut it off flush with the braidâ€™s wall. Pull on the loop and standing length, and the tag you just cut off will pull up inside the braidâ€™s core. Run your fingers over the entire splice to smooth and straighten it.
Insert the end of the fly line, shooting head (leader or shooting line end), or shooting line into the braided mono core and inch worm it all the way until it enters the core of the buried tag about an 8th inch.
Now trap the braided sleeve to the line using a 10- to 12-turn nail knot just above where the line enters the braided core, using 10- to 12-pound-test mono. Trim the tag ends of the braid close to the nail knot. Coat the nail knot and the area were the end of the line enters the tag core with flexible cement such as Plyobond or Loop knot dressing.
Braided mono loops are the easiest to make and install of all the previous methods. No other line loop is as strong. Made properly they will slip through the guides like ladyfish slime, will hold the largest tarpon or billfish, and will make connecting fly lines to backing, shooting heads to shooting line and leader butts to fly lines easier and more efficient than ever before.
Forming End Loops In Your Fly Lines tttt tttt tttt Increasingly, manufacturers are offering fly lines with factory loops installed, but there will be times when you have to fashion your own. tttt tttt tttt Mar 14, 2005 tttt tttt tttt tttttBy Nick Curcione (More articles by this author) tttt tttt tttt tttt tttt tttt tttt ttttttttt tttttttttt ttttttttt ttttttttt tttttttt tttt tttt ttttt tttttt ttttttttt tttttttttt tttttttttt tttttttttt tttttttttt tttttttttt ttttttttttt tttttt tttttttIf you think about it, fly-fishing requires more connections between lines of differing strength, diameter and composition than any other type of fishing. We join the fly line to the backing and a leader system to the terminal end of the fly line. If you use a shooting head or a line that incorporates different tip sections, even more connections are required. Unquestionably, a series of interlocking loops is the most efficient means to make these connections.
Increasingly, manufacturers are offering fly lines with factory loops installed, but there will be times when you have to fashion your own. Many fly-fishers are familiar with the practice of connecting the fly line to the backing via a loop-to-loop connection, but I also use a loop in the front end of the line to make changing leaders and butt sections easier. Contrary to some beliefs, this front-end loop does not spook fish, nor does it adversely affect the way the line turns over on the cast. There are several different methods of fashioning loops in fly lines, and over the years I have used them all.
If the diameter of the fly line is not too large, the easiest thing to do is to fold the line over itself to make the desired-size loop and bind it together by means of several speed or regular nail knots. With the exception of the loops I use for the running lines of my shooting heads, which are large enough to pass a reel or a coiled head through to facilitate quick line changes, my loops are generally about 1Â¼2 inch long. To tie the nail knots, use a 12-inch section of 8- to 12-pound-test monofilament and bind the fly-line sections together with two seven- to eight-turn knots, leaving a space of less than 1Â¼8 inch between the knots. If the fly line is limp or has a very small diameter, you can facilitate tying the knots by laying a needle or a length of heavy wire along the fly line to serve as a stiff base. This system has never failed me.
You can make a similar type of loop by whip-finishing the line sections together with a bobbin and fly-tying thread. However, even though many anglers swear by this connection, it is not nearly as secure as the monofilament nail knots, and I have seen a number of these loops pull free. I do not recommend this system for large saltwater species.
With a larger-diameter fly line, like floating and intermediate lines, folding the line over itself produces a bulge that might have difficulty passing through the rod guides. The most popular method for putting loops in these lines involves using either monofilament or Dacron hollow-core braids. I prefer the latter because it doesn't break down as readily as monofilament. Both types come in different breaking strengths and diameters. A 50-pound-test hollow-core monofilament braid will accommodate most large-diameter fly lines; for Dacron you'll have to look in the 80- to 100-plus-pound range.
In either case, begin the process with a 12-inch section of braid (if you want a larger loop, start with a longer length of braid). Take a 12-inch length of approximately 27-pound-test single-strand wire and bend it in half to form a narrow threading loop. Insert the wire into the middle of the braid approximately 6 inches from the tag end, and push it about 11Â¼2 inches up inside the braid. At this point, push the wire back out of the braid. Insert the free end of the braid into the wire loop, and then grasp its tag ends and pull it along with the end of the braid back inside the braided line that you ran the wire through. Pull the wire loop and the tag end out, leaving about a 1Â¼2 inch loop in the braid. It's common practice to insert the tag end into the braid a second time for added security, but it's not necessary. As long as the loop is pulled evenly (which is what happens with interlocking loops), the tag end will not pull free from the braid. To make sure this never happens, tie a nail knot over the section of braid just below the juncture of the loop. Now, regardless of how you pull on the loop, it won't give way.
Once you have formed the loop in the braid, you must work the fly line into the remaining straight section of braid. (With a 1Â¼2-inch loop in one end, about 5 inches of single-strand braid should remain below the juncture of the loop.) To make the job easier, cut the tag end of the fly line on a bias and work it inside the braid "inchworm style" until you reach the tag end of the loop. Lastly, whip-finish or nail-knot the tag end of the braid over the fly line.
I have used braids for many years, but for the past year or so I have reverted to a method I tried a long time ago when I had to fashion an emergency fly-line loop during a trip off Baja. I was tuna fishing, and a yellowfin that I couldn't control ran under the boat, severing the fly line as it sawed across the keel. The only material I had was plain monofilament, and it worked perfectly. In fact, today I prefer using monofilament loops instead of braid. I find they tend to last as long as the fly line, and they have a stiffer character than braids, which assures a virtually hinge-free connection.
Generally speaking, any good-quality leader material in the 50-pound-test range will make very effective fly-line loops. All you need to do is form the desired size loop in the 50-pound monofilament and bind it to the tag end of the fly line with a few nail knots â€” I use four or five. To make the transition from the fly line to the loop as smooth as possible, first flatten the tag ends of the monofilament with pliers to eliminate any bulges. When fashioning a mono loop to a clear intermediate line, use 20-pound-test monofilament to tie the nail knots. Intermediate lines do not have coatings like other fly lines, so you need the heavier monofilament for the nail knots to make the connection secure. Again, when properly executed, these loops should never pull free.
One final note: I never use binding-type glue with any of the methods discussed here. It contributes nothing to the strength and simply is not necessary. In fact, it can be a disadvantage because it can make the connection less flexible, and in the case of monofilament, the heat that some cyanoacrylate glues generate will actually weaken the line. The only adhesive I sometimes use is rubber cement and only for smoothing the connection.
With that said, this is one case where getting looped is definitely a good thing.
Posted April 13 2008 - 3:21 PM
Eddy....I just had a similar dilemma. I used the method brooklynfly suggested. Instead of mono to tie the nail knots, I used some spare 30 lb. power pro (8 lb. diameter equivalent). I only made about 5 turns per knot. Then I covered the knots with UV knot sense.
Also, I used the speed nail knot instead of the ordinary nail knot. For me, it is much easier to tie and you don't need a special tool to tie it. Here is a youtube link which illustrates how to tie it.
Posted April 13 2008 - 3:41 PM
that's what it is.
Double over end of flyline into a loop. I like a loop a little around 1/2" long. Tie 2 10-turn nailknots (google it) with 10-12lb mono spaced about 1/8" apart. Make sure your nail knots are nice and neat; and the wraps are nice and tight + not crossed over or anything. Good luck
Posted April 13 2008 - 3:48 PM
For further info and discussion, see above.
I use a small length (about 3 - 5 in. finished) of mono (25# to 50#) depending on fly line size (2 WT - 11 WT). To fly line I tie a nail knot, at free mono end a perfection loop. I also coat the nail knot with ZAP A Gap, then overcoat with Loon's Knot Sense. On perf loop knot, just Knot Sense. For fly lines with mono core, I tighten nail knot so it digs through line wall and into core. I use pliers to hold tag end and wrap free end - destined for perf loop- around a smooth wood dowel and really tighten up the nail knot. I have never had a breaking problem with either the nail knot or perfection loop landing many fish from trout to large stripers and bluefish. Hope this helps.
Posted April 13 2008 - 3:52 PM
Eddy, Forgot one thing, I always coat my nailknots with a drop of aquaseal. Helps protect knot from abrasion and makes a smoother transition through rod tip.
Posted April 13 2008 - 6:46 PM
I take a 12" piece of 20lb Jinkai leader material and attach to the fly line with a nail knot. Tie a perfection loop in the terminal end and your all set. (after knots and trimming the short leader is maybe 6" or so) Coat the knot if you want. If you get the nail knot nice and clean and trim correctly you should have no trouble. I find I can switch out leaders easily depending on wind conditions, spooky fish - whatever
Posted April 13 2008 - 6:50 PM
I should have read your post more closely - you have the same approach. . . So - Yeah, what Brooklyn said!
Nice looking deciever in your sig.
Posted April 13 2008 - 7:37 PM
Two words. WHIPPED LOOP. It's simple, easy to make, and I never had one pull out. Add a bit of Pliobond or Aquaseal and let it set up for about 24 hours. That's it.
Posted April 14 2008 - 2:12 AM
For attaching a loop to the end of the fly line. I like to take a length of line about 4 feet long that is slightly heavier than the tippet I plan to use. Triplefish Perlon is my choice of materials because it is very tough and it doesn't loose it's strength even when stretched repeatedly. First I double it and take the two bitter ends and tie a nail knot on the end of the fly line. The knot is tied wrapping both ends simultaneously. Once the double nail knot is drawn down I put a weight on the knot and cut the loop in the end to separate the two lines. I put a heavy weight on the knot and twist the two ends until I get a nice comfortable wind in them. To keep the twists I tie and overhand knot and the end of the pair. Then I bring the end back about half way up from the double nail knot and take the double line and tie them into a double overhand or what I believe is called a surgeon's knot. Teased nicely and drawn up secure this technique make for an extremely strong terminal loop that turns over beautifully. I use the same surgeons knot to form all my loops. and find it to work as well or better than the hollow nylon braided loops that come with many fly lines.
Tight lines, Rich