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Newell's for casting

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jimmy z

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The one I tried screamed like it was on fire. But it threw a four ounce bank sinker faaaaaaaaaaaaar. I don't know the number but it had a graphite spool and was about as big as a Squidder.

.........Elvis lives....2020

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I am responding to your post with a few answers. Don't get me wrong, I understand and agree with some of your comments, but here is my $0.02.

 

...I could not figure out why these reels would be preferred over other bait casters...

 

I occasionally would read that the reels were the lightest in weight of any reel in comparable sizes... This is not true! They weigh as much or slightly more than other reels...and this includes their (Newell's) graphite spool reels...

 

Price-wise, the Newell reels offer no advantage for what you are getting...actually they are a tad expensive IMHO.

 

 

I am guessing you are comparing them mainly against versus Ambassadeurs and Penns, but you have to compare apples and apples. The models don't match up exactly, but here are the closest models for comparison.

 

Ambassadeur 6500 C3 (classic) 11.3 oz 160 yards/20lbs test $80-85

Ambassadeur 60N (Record Casting) 12.9 oz 160 yards/20lbs test $139

Shimano CT400BSV 11.9 oz 160 yards/20 lbs test. $220

Penn Squidder G30 18.9 oz 320 yards/20 lbs test $60

Newell 220 13.3 oz 200 yards/20lbs test (per their brochure). $125

 

Price - The Squidder wins on price and line capacity, but is 50% heavier than the C3. The C3 is the next choice for price, but by the time you upgrade it with a larger handle and magnets, you are over $100. and the weight is about 13 oz (if not more) like the Ambassadeur 60N, which costs $140. Besides the Ambassadeurs handle 40 yards less line (160 yards versus 200 yds of 20 lbs). You also have to realize that the rated capacity of the Newell 220 is to ~1/8" below the spool lip. The Newell looks comparable in price to the Ambassadeur

 

Line capacity - The Squidder wins on price and line capacity, but is 50% heavier than the C3 and 40% heavier than the Newell (18.9 vs 13.3oz). Even if you compare vs the Newell 235 (350yds of 20lbs it is stillheavier (18.9 vs 14.3oz). Its spool is also much wider than the Newell 220. I don't have a C3 right here, but I am guessing the Newell has close to the narrowest spool making it good for casting and retrieving. The OD of its spool is 1.83 inches. You also have to realize that the rated capacity of the Newell 220 is to ~1/8" below the spool lip. You can fit much more on the reel if you want to spool it all the way full like a C3 or Squidder. A Newell 235 can handle more line thanthe Penn (350 yards vs 320 of 20lbs) and weighs only 14.3 oz weight.

 

Weight - The Ambassadeur wins, but has the much less line capacity and a smaller linear retrieve capacity. This is the key here. The weight comparison is for similar reels. When you pimp out the Ambassadeur it weighs about the same as the Newell graphite spool reel. The next step up the Shimano line (CT700BSV) gains the line capacity (300 yards of 20lbs) comparable to that of a Newell 229 (290 yds of 20lbs) but it weighs more than the Newell 229 (19.2 oz vs 13.9 oz). I don't understand where your comment about them being heavier comes from.

 

Retrieve (ratio?): The Penn has the lowest retrieve ratio at 4.3:1. The Ambassadeur C3 has the highest retrieve ratio at 5.3:1, but with the larger diameter of the Newell spool it takes up more line than the others; a whopping 27" per crank of the handle (at 1/8" less than full spool = 1.71" diameter).

 

Handles -The Penn and the Newell have the biggest handles. I prefer the Newell's handle. Get rid of the C3 handle

 

Drag - I'll take the Newell drag over the Ambassadeur or Shimano for stopping power, because it has way more surface area and has polished stainless washers. If you put an upgraded Ht100 drag on the Penn it will work well also. The Ambassadeur factory drag is alright.

 

Smoothness (fit and finish) - You can't beat the Shimano, but at $80 more than the nearest competitor it should be above the others.

 

Ease of casting - Shimano or Ambassadeur 60N (or upgraded C3).

 

Ease of retrive - Newell 220 wins for its narrow spool and access to its open face. Ambassadeur is right there, though.

 

Ease of maintenance - Newell wins with the Penn second and ambassadeur. All you need is one screwdriver and grease/Oil. All of the mechanicals come out in one piece using one screwdriver. There are no springs or magnets falling out. Bearing tension is easily done with a screwdriver (or coin) Besides everything is stainless and graphite. I don't like the plated gears on the Penn. The shimano is way behind on ease of maintenance. My buddies reels routinely have parts pop loose onto the floor during maintenance.

 

Durability - This is probably a personal call. Ambassadeur, Penn and Newell are all up there. Penn gets lowered one notch for the plated gears (I have seen too many wear through the plating) . Some people might lower the Newell a notch for the old style drag washers (carbon fiber) that they used to use. Those are replaceable items and drag grease eliminates that problem, even without the new style washers.

 

Distance - Penn is probably last, but not terrible. Newell could win (out of the box with 2 in 1 oil replacing the factory grease and bearing adjustment). Ambassadeur 60N may win, I haven't cast one, but with brakes and or magnets, I doubt it. Ron Arra uses a Newell 220 with aluminum spool. You pick it.

 

Design - All in the eye of the beholder; It dpends on what you are looking for. All good reels for their price. Shimano is the smoothest from the factory, but is the most complicated and hardest to service. Penn is cheapest, but the internals aren't near as durable as the others unless you go up a few models. Ambassadeur has an excellent combination of simplicity, durability, and function. Newell is as simple as the Penn but more durable, and is easiest to take apart and put back together. Some don't like the sound of the square cut gears, but this makes the individual teeth stronger and makes the gears have less lash (i.e. slippage). If yours has too much noise send it in and have it tuned up because they shouldn't really be that noisy unless the bearings are dry/damaged or the bearing end play isn't set.

 

... And thumbing the flange of a "graphite spool" will burn you at times, especially when throwing long w/ heavy payloads where more thumb pressure is needed to control things...and the flange being "wet" does not necessarily mean no burn...trust me on this! The graphite spool design on these reels is a litlle of a mis-step IMHO, just like its was a bit of a mistake on Daiwa's SLOSH...

 

 

I don't seem to have the same problem with the graphite spools that everyone else does, Maybe I'm not casting as far (typically 60-120 yards with 6 and bait), but if you don't thumb the cast until the end of the cast, this problem isn't as big a deal. I've only burned my thumb once on the spool, and that was when i botched a cast badly and tried to stop the impending monster backlash. I burned it much worse when trying to do the same thing by thumbing the line. That removed my finger print. You can spend the extra $60 and get the aluminum spool and crank if you want to eliminatet this). I understand this when you are casting the full 200 yards like Ron Arra, but I don't have to worry about slowing the cast so I don't pop the spool knot.

 

If long distance casting is important, well the reels can cast far in the right hands...but they are not in the same league as the Abu Ambassadeurs per my experience...

 

 

It all depends on what you are looking for. I am far from an expert caster, but can can the Newells a long ways - longer than a factory Ambassadeur.

 

 

These reels were designed to replace the Penns that were being used on the Long Range boats out of San Diego (and LA). They were much lighter than the comparable Penn reels. Carl Newell was machinist and had a shop, so he initially just built improved replacement parts for his Penn reels. Then his friends and fellow fisherman wanted parts, too. Finally, he decided, to build the entire reels to simplify the design and maintenance. He wanted a reel that would stand up to a week or 10 days straight of fishing on a long range boat without suffering permanent damage or wearing your arm out.

 

The reels are still built in Carl Newell's machine shop. It is not a high volume business and it doesn't rely solely on reel production. The machine shop is stil the primary business. That is why you don't see them putting a new reel out every other year.

 

They are designed to be a light weight, low maintenance, high speed reel reel with a good line capacity. For a fraction of an ounce you can go up to a 229 (290 yards of 20lbs) or for an ounce you can go to the 235 (350 yards of 20) which has more line capacity than the Penn. They are not a finely tuned Swiss watch. They are a nice pickup truck. They are lightweight. (some people may overhype this aspect)

 

We all have to buy what we like and trust. I understand they don't suit your wants and needs, but they aren't out of line with other similarly priced reels as you suggested. I am sure if people decided to pimp out a Newell like they do with the Ambassadeurs, they might make one that suits your needs/wants better.

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My 2 cents, for what its worth, from afar.

Interesting thread. It is discussions like this that make this such a great site. I agree wholeheartedly with Big Dave.

Living in Sri Lanka, where the surf fishing is excellent and climatic conditions such that one can fish hard all year round with possibilities of catching that 'once in a lifetime' GT, Spanish Mackerel or Barramundi almost a daily occurance, one requires hardy and very functional fishing tackle - not having access to reel spares and service one has to only use reels that can hold up to lots of use and abuse with minimal breakdowns. Thus, the Penn Squidders, Jigmasters and old Abu 10,000's (Swedish ones) were the reels of choice yesteryear. Nowadays one does not see the Abus possibly due to their reliability issues, the Newells came and went fast possibly due to them all not being '100 % sound' out of the box, the hard core Penn Squidder/Jigmaster users have discovered the Shimano's (mainly Speedmasters), Daiwa's (slosh) and the Penn GS series and are begining to swear by them - claiming easier more controllable casting, extreme corrosion resistance, great gears and drags and super reliable.

So, having seen a few of the new Daiwa Sealine X SA series reels with some models having an option of a lower gear ratio, these look like the reels that are set to 'catch on' and become the preferred choice over here.

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Crashq...that is one good writeup icon14.gif ...

 

A couple of comments...

 

You stated:

 

"...you have to compare apples and apples. The models don't match up exactly, but here are the closest models for comparison."

 

Trying to compare the Ambassadeur 6500 C3 and the Newell P220 is not close to "apples and apples"... The Ambassadeur 6500 C3 is a level wind and the Newell is not! The level wind mechanism alone I am guessing weights a few oz... So even w/ the level wind mechanism, the 6500 C3 weighs less than the Newell P220...

 

FWIW, a better comparison would be the Newell P220 and the classic Ambassadeur 6500 Sports Rocket C3CT MKII...the latter of which is not a level wind, has an all metal body and comes w/ a power handle. I am fairly certain (and if memory serves me right), the 6500 Sports Rocket C3CT MK II weighs 12.9 oz which is less than the Newell P220.

 

However, there is still the point you made about the weight of a reel and line capacity...

 

The Newell P220 weighs 13.3 oz and the Ambassadeur 6500 C3 weighs 11.3 oz. The Newell is obviously heavier out of the box, but as you noted holds more 20# mono line. Thus the inference to be made is that because the Newell P220 has greater line capacity, it"™s therefore bigger and thus weighs more compared to the weight of Ambassadeur 6500 C3... OK, this is a good point. But to be honest, I would not consider either the Newell 220 or the Ambassadeur 6500 as 20# line reels... I have them loaded w/ 16# mono and both reels hold in excess of 200 yards which is typically enough... If you go to braid, line capacity becomes a moot point!

 

Also, if you want to base your observation about a reel"™s weight on the corresponding line capacity, well look at Penn"™s International 965...holds 200 yards of 20# mono, just like the Newell P220...it has a power handle w/ a metal spool and all metal body, but weighs only 12 oz...and to boot it"™s a level wind which adds weight...

 

As for casting distance...well a lot of this depends on a caster"™s skill... If you can get greater distance out of a Newell versus a "factory" Ambassadeur, OK I believe you, but surprised! If I want distance I go right to the Ambassadeurs, like the 6500 C3CT Blue Yonder, 6500 Sports Rocket C3CT MK II, the 6500 CT Big Game, the 6500 CT Chrome Rocket, the 6500 CT Mag Elite or the 6500 CT Sports Mag... All these reels have aluminum spools w/ superior designed in board spool bearings...and of course the reels have well designed cast control (mags or centrifugal brakes)... Ambassadeurs are made by Abu...Abu Ambassadeur and Ultra Mag reels have seriously dominated long distance casting competition for the past 25 years...yes, other reels have held their own at times in the world of long distance casting like Penn"™s 525 Mag and I know Ron Arra uses a Newell... But for me, I am not thinking Newell to get out over the bar.

 

Newell"™s were not intended to be bait casters per se...they were designed for boat fishing, hence why there is no cast control... However, surf fishers discovered they cast fairly well and a following evolved... They are good reels...they can cast well...I just think that there are better bait casters at better prices for surf fishing... Magnus out of Sweden was/is selling the highly praised Ambassadeur 6500 Blue Yonder, the 6500 CT Chrome Rocket and/or even the classic 6500 CS Rocket (level wind) for as low as $100...this is an absolute steal for these world class bait casters...

 

Poppy

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Crashq,

 

Excellent Post!!!! It is great to hear from west coast and overseas surfcasters. Big Dave, your years of experience had huge value for the rest of us.

 

When I was a young engineering officer, my boss would drill us on our problem soving skills...."Saftey, Performance, Cost" he would shout. I have used this method my entire carreer. For fishing I have modified it to "Simplicity, Performance, Cost"

 

Simplicity is a big deal to me. I kind of look at the P220's as the Penn 704/6 of the conventional world. Just about everything I need and easy to modify if you care to. If it takes a swim or gets sandy, it is simple to put back in service. More bearings, means more complexity and more work to me. To me the Newell F models are like my 1911 .45ACP side arm.

 

Performance is excelllent for the Newells. They are not the smoothest, most quiet reels available. This is good for me while night fishing. Once they break in they become smoother and more quiet. Putting shielded bearings from Boca helps. It is also easy to slip in Smoothie drags or HT-100's if you want. Ergonomically the Newell's are best for me. I'm 5'10" with med/large hands. The handle is very well shaped. Adding a static magnet to the F models is simple if needed. I fished the hell out of my P220/229F's last year. Took them all over the world with me. Except for some scratches here and there they look like new. I admire the way Carl Newell designed them. To me it seems like every material was selected to do it's job with simplicity and strength in mind. Sure you could have a CNC machined frame and more bearings, but do you really need them?

 

Cost is important. I paid $199 each for my 4 F model Newells. I paid $245 each for my Abu7500CT's. I feel the Newells are fairly priced.

 

I owe a lot to the 7500C3CT. It was the 1st Reel I bought to go with my 11 foot Lami. It helped me to quickly get great results with my xcra1322. It is a very fine reel. I use and travel with the 6500C3CT mag with 15lb. test, also a nice 15lb. reel.

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I have both the P-229F and the 7500C3CT. They both have their selling points, IMO. The ergonomics of the Newell are better. Little more compact on the rod (altho the 7500 has a recessed reel foot and sits lower than you'd think just by looking at it off the reel). Newell's about 3 oz lighter. I use my thumb, so my 7500 has no brake blocks inside. Without the blocks, it's a toss-up for distance. My 229 has the aluminum spool, but I got used to the graphite on my 235 over time.

 

The only open spool 6500 Abu I have is one of the original CT Mag Elites. I use a P-220F instead of that for Canal jigging. Even tho the 6500 will probably outcast it. Reasons? Capacity, ruggedness of construction, and drag. Even with Smoothie washers, a 6500 will not put out and hold the same drag pressure as a Newell. And the Newell has a greater drag surface. My 220 holds more than 300 yards of 65# braid. The rigid frame holds the side plates and spool absolutely in line---no torquing or flexing when you have 10-12 pounds of drag and a 25 pound bass sideways to the current bull-dogging you.

 

For beach fishing, I'll take the Abus hands-down. I want my Newells for the Canal.

"…if catching fish is your only objective, you are either new to the game or too narrowly focused on measurable results.” - D. Stuver

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Rumblefish, you are have some good points. The main point that I was responding to was that Newells were heavier and more expensive than better reels.

 

My statement about comparing apples and apples was not intended to say that a 6500 is comparable to a Newell 220. In fact, the opposite is true. I only included the 6500 and variants because I know they (and their variants) are one of the favorite reels around here and one of your favorite reels. I knew that the variants were the main reels that you were comparing against, even though there are some big differences. In addition, I wasn't going to spend all day trying to find every last "sports rocket" variant to compare weights, as the weight differences between them are minor at best. I included the basic 6500C3 for the price point because I knew it was the least expensive variant. I included the '60N Record Casting' variant of the 6500 because it would provide a similar (though not identical) price and weight to the variants that you like without having to search every tackle shop for one that had all of weights and statistics.

 

The Ambassadeur 60 (Record Casting) reel is a a 6500 variant that comes with a drilled spool and centrifugal brakes and a level wind (which doesn't add that much weight). It weighs in at 12.9 ounces (as I mentioned in the previous post), so your estimate for the "Blue Yonder" is likely pretty close. If you upgrade this reel to the 61HCN high capacity (245 yards of 16lbs test) which capacity that is closer to the Newell 220 and comes with a drilled power handle, it weighs in at 13.3 ounces (the same as the Newell) and costs $140 reel. This isn't cheaper or lighter than the Newell. For a more direct comparison, try an Ambassadeur 7000HCN (narrow spool), which is even more similar in size, shape and capacity.

 

Ambassadeur 7000HCN (narrow spool) 210yds/17lbs 16.9 oz $140

5.3:1 retrieve ratio

 

More expensive and heavier. Once again my intent was not to say that Ambassadeurs are not great reels, they are. I was imply trying to say that Newells were not quite the heavy,overpriced product that you implied. I used everyday prices and easily available statistics. Yes you could find a "sports rocket" for less than $140, but that isn't an everyday price. I have also purchased two newell 200 series reels for $90, but you can't get that price everyday either.

 

Upon further searching, I did find 6500C3CT "Blue Yonder" on this side of the pond for $150 and the 6500 CS Sports Mag for $175. They both were listed at 13.6 ounces. For comparison the 6500 CS and CT Chrome Rockets were $210 and 16.9 ounces. The 7000 CS Pro Rocket $204 in England.

 

But to be honest, I would not consider either the Newell 220 or the Ambassadeur 6500 as 20# line reels

 

I'll agree that the 6500 and its variants are more like 15-17lbs reels, but the 200 is a 20 lbs reel. Both its size and drag are matched perfectly for 20 lbs.

 

Also, if you want to base your observation about a reel"™s weight on the corresponding line capacity, well look at Penn"™s International 965...holds 200 yards of 20# mono, just like the Newell P220...it has a power handle w/ a metal spool and all metal body, but weighs only 12 oz...and to boot it"™s a level wind which adds weight...

 

I have only fished a 965 extensively once, but I'll say it anyway. I doubt that 12 oz rating is accurate. The Penn definitely felt heavier than the 6500 I was also using. Its solid metal frame weighs the roughly the same as the non-solid 6500??? I guess since I don't have one around to check, I'll have to take Penn's word for. I didn't think the Penn measured up to the Abu. Besides it costs $220. I only included one high priced alternative because my point was that the Newells weren't more expensive. Comparing against a bunch of reels that cost $95 more was rather pointless; one was enough.

 

As for casting distance...well a lot of this depends on a caster"™s skill... If you can get greater distance out of a Newell versus a "factory" Ambassadeur, OK I believe you, but surprised!

 

Well, I did remove the bearings and thoroughly clean them of grease and replace the grease with oil instead. Newells come greased from the factory.

 

If I want distance I go right to the Ambassadeurs, like the 6500 C3CT Blue Yonder, 6500 Sports Rocket C3CT MK II, the 6500 CT Big Game, the 6500 CT Chrome Rocket, the 6500 CT Mag Elite or the 6500 CT Sports Mag...All these reels have aluminum spools w/ superior designed in board spool bearings...and of course the reels have well designed cast control (mags or centrifugal brakes)...

 

Yes, these are all excellent reels, but they aren't lighter or cheaper. I can add better ceramic bearings, an aluminum spool, and other things to improve my Newells too, but that increases the price, just like it does on these Abus. With that much line unevenly wound line on the spool, I don't think you gain much with an aluminum spool anyway. All the other cast control doodahs don't increase the distance one bit, they just make it easier to cast. Mag only may let you cast farther on average.

 

Ambassadeurs are made by Abu...Abu Ambassadeur and Ultra Mag reels have seriously dominated long distance casting competition for the past 25 years...yes, other reels have held their own at times in the world of long distance casting like Penn"™s 525 Mag and I know Ron Arra uses a Newell... But for me, I am not thinking Newell to get out over the bar.

 

You are right, but I would bet that most of these guys don't use any brake blocks and very few, if any magnets. I would also bet that they have even their fancy Abu variants disassembled and "blueprinted". There is a difference between tournament casting and fishing, hence the reason why most people use brake blocks and magnets; for ease of fishing. They may reduce distance a little, but they increase fishing time for a lot of people. I saw a Ron Arra seminar where he mentioned that all you need for bearing oils was 2 in 1 oil(I think). He thought it was rather strange to buy expensive "red rocket fuel" to get less bearing resistance and then add more brakes and magnets to add resistance. Not everything translates from tournaments to fishing.

 

 

 

 

...so my 7500 has no brake blocks inside. Without the blocks, it's a toss-up for distance.

 

 

I'd agree with that statement. Ambassadeurs are fine reels, otherwise they wouldn't have been around this long.

 

Newell"™s were not intended to be bait casters per se...they were designed for boat fishing, hence why there is no cast control...

 

I'll clarify this statement. They weren't designed for Surf casting. They were designed for use on long range boats, where there is plenty of casting going on. This usually consists of tossing heavy yo-yo iron or skipping iron on a crowded boat, and occasionally fly-lining live bait. farther casts mean more hookups on these boats.

 

I probably should have stopped after my last post, but its too late now. Fishing reels are like trucks. Everyone is looking for something slightly different. People like Fords, Toyota's, Chevy'e, Dodge's, etc. You likely won't change anyone's mind because they have their own criteria, which may not be the same as yours. I like Newells. I do wish they would upgrade them more frequently and offer a higher end model, but I am happy with them as they are. Would I like a Porsche Cayenne? Yes. Is it a better truck than my Toyota? Probably. Does that mean my Toyota is a bad truck? No. Newells are fine reels, they just aren't what you want.

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  • 4 months later...
  • 6 years later...

What a great post!!!! I haven't been on this post for few years and I am glad I am on this forum now. I am so amazed at the knowledge posted by all you pros. I was vacationing on the Cape two weeks ago and bumped in to Ron Arra. We drove to Red Top and I bought few Ron's new lures he has been talking about. I was fishing at the Canal next morning with my friend from Chatham and Ron and his friend showed up and we fished few hours together. We had everything right, right tide, right place and all the right gears. I was using my favorite rod, XSRA1321-2 with CABO 50 with 50lbs Power Pro. Ron was using his XS1322. It was a such a joy watching him casting his lure across the Canal. Guess what Robn and I caught nothing but my friend ended up catching a schoolie and Ron's friend caught a big blue. I noticed that Ron had a new reel. It was Penn Squall with 50lbs Power Pro. When I fished with him a couple years ago he was using Newell P220-F as main and Penn 525 as back up. He only uses reels with flanges for control. I am the worst caster when it comes to casting reels. You talk about bird's nest, mine looks like a afro-hair during 60'. I have a drawer full of 6500 and 7000, 7500 and many many more other reels and some are very special reels and brand new and I don't know what I am going to do with all that reels. :D :D:D

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Jimmy... I have a P220-F and a P229-F if you want to check them out. The 220 is Penn 146 size and the 229 is Penn 145 size I believe. They can be loud. The P series have aluminum spools. Big Dave is correct about the Daiwa reels... but he did not mention that the bodies are really badly designed for trigger reel seats... at least I found them uncomfortable to hold with a trigger. I like the SHV series best.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts" Jack Johnson.

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