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bending hooks...question


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#1 doyle007

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Posted July 06 2006 - 9:05 PM

i want to try a bendback pattern, and i don't have any bendback hooks. i was thinking of taking a mustad 34007 (like the thread on "which hooks" said, they are cheap, and i've got a lot of them), and bending it just behind the eye with a set of round nose pliers. i know that i could do that easily enough, but i thought that i remembered reading somewhere recently that in order to bend hooks and keep the strength intact, you should heat the area where you intend to make the bend until it is glowing. once it is glowing, you can make the bend, and then let it cool down slowly. i believe that this is called annealing the hook, but i'm not sure. does this sound about right to anyone, or should i just bend it, and not worry about heating?

another question for you, a standard hook, like a 34007, has the point in line with the shank and eye, so when you strip the fly, everything goes the same way. if i bend the hook, the the point will be pointing upwards (i'll be tying on the inside of the hook, sort of like a clouser), but the point won't be in-line with the eye. will this be an issue? i'm wondering if the time comes that a fish is dumb enough to swim into my fly, i want to be able to strip strike it, and get a solid hookset. if the point is on a different angle than the strip, will this effect my hookset?



#2 ferret

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Posted July 06 2006 - 9:11 PM

http://www.aswf.org/....g_lesson2.html



#3 Skip S

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Posted July 06 2006 - 9:48 PM

Dont heat the hook,iv'e never heard that.SS hooks are soft enough that its really easy to bend them.Just hold the hook in the pliers and push the hook shank down slightly,thats all.The fly will track fine.I prefer to use Mustad 34011 long shank hooks for bendbacks.I get better hook-ups with the longer shank hooks



#4 SteveC

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Posted July 07 2006 - 7:14 AM

They are easy to bend with pliers. May sound geeky but I always wear goggles to protect my eyes. I have had hooks snap befo


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#5 SeaOtter

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Posted July 07 2006 - 8:01 AM

Joe,
I use tons of bendbacks. Hold the eye with pliers and use your finger in the hook bend to push it down and bend it a little. Works just fine, doesn't affect the swim or hook strength at all (that I've noticed).


ARGH!!! You've given up yet another secret spot!!!!!!!

#6 Dave S

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Posted July 07 2006 - 8:02 AM

Little tip- dont over do it with the bend- Just a slight bend in the hook will give you what you need and not put a stress point in the hook shank.



#7 bbuzzi

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Posted July 07 2006 - 9:06 AM

Just bend it as said above and go slow. With my vice, I put the hook eye in the vice and bend it. It works for me with out having to look for the pliers.


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#8 doyle007

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Posted July 07 2006 - 4:56 PM

thanks guys. here is the hook that i was thinking of:



here is the fly that i'm going for:



#9 crashq

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Posted July 07 2006 - 7:30 PM

I agree with Skip S, don't heat the hook. You can easily bend a 34007 hook and it will maintain its strength without any heat trreatment as long as you don't bend it too much (or it will become brittle). In fact it will be stronger around the bend due to work hardening - like when you bend a coat hanger. Annealing a hook to obtain more uniform properties or different properties requires specific temperatures and times to get what you want or you may make the properties worse.

Also, avoid bending heat-treated (i.e. high strength), chemically-sharpened, or plated hooks. Some high strength hooks can be cracked if bent. The plating on plated hooks can be cracked if bent, compromising their saltwater resistance. Chemically sharpened hooks are usually not SS and have stronger, but more brittle points, so avoid trying to bend any portion of them near the hook point. That hook in your last post looks like it might be all of the above, so it may not be a good candidate for bending.

As far as reducing the hooking ability, try to match the profile of an existing bendback hook or plastic worm hook, I am sure they try to minimize that effect.



#10 Gilbey

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Posted July 07 2006 - 8:09 PM


Quote:








Originally Posted by doyle007






here is the fly that i'm going for:






Man I look at that hook and think, no way that is ever gonna' find paydirt inside a fishes mouth with that narrow gap and circle point . Maybe it's just me though .

I'll tell you one thing though, that sure is one good lookin' fly you tied there !

Alan



#11 ferret

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Posted July 07 2006 - 9:08 PM

Especially with the eyes covering the point



#12 doyle007

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Posted July 08 2006 - 9:40 AM

gilbey, i wish that i could tie something like that, but it's not my fly. i just found it online.

ferret, good call about the eyes covering the hook point. i hadn't noticed that before.

i'd like to find a hook that has the same basic shape, but i don't want a circle hook. when i fish, i can't just let a fly drift, i need to be working it. so, a circle hook definitely wood not be my first choice. i like the idea of looking at some worm hooks and other hooks that are designated as fly hooks.



#13 Lionel

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Posted July 08 2006 - 6:25 PM

Over the puddle here in Oz we got some hooks called Mustad Big guns. very similar in style to the eagle claw. Not a circle hook too.



#14 Dave S

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Posted July 10 2006 - 7:20 AM

If you're looking to tie up widesides- try the Gami.



#15 BobPop

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Posted July 10 2006 - 8:24 AM

What you are looking at is not a bendback hook but a circle hook that has a bent eye. If you need the fly to ride hook up, all you would have to do is tie the fly on a standard hook as needed and simply swing it or rotate it around to the other side and the fly will do what you want. Paul Van Reenan use to do this with a couple of his designs. I rather just tie the fly on the inside of ANY hook and have it ride hook up. The wing position will overcome the hooks keel and turn it upside down in the water.
Many pre-made hooks are not very desireable since they take away most of the tying space. That makes for a very limited tying base. That restricts many patterns from being fulfilled. BEND your own! But do not bend it a lot. You simply need to put a slight bend in the shape to alter the keel of the hook. If you bend the hook too much, your hook up ratio will suffer. Try a test of your fly's ability to ride correctly in the water. Experiment and OBSERVE to find the answer for yourself. You'll be amazed by what you find.
BobPop


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