...thinking about Dodges/Jeeps/etc?

[99ways2die]

...think again, otherwise wait (read: hope) for real improvements in the future.

Dislaimer:
Even though I dislike Chrysler products myself doesn't mean I'm against people buing them. It's their/your money.
Quoting the article for open debate and I am not bashing Chrysler at all (as I know someone will try to spin the wheel away from the issue). Read it for what it is and come to your own conclusions.
....oh, and save us the "my ........ has eleventy million miles on it and I never had a problem" Yeah, we know, thnx.

From CNN:

Chrysler's attack on crummy quality

Even the government has called quality an issue for the carmaker's survival. Doug Betts' job is to fix it.
By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNNMoney.com senior writer

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- If you've ever worked in customer service, you know what the wrath of a dissatisfied client feels like. Now just think what Doug Betts, Chrysler's Chief Customer Officer, has to face every day in his job.
Chrysler has become the poster child for poor quality. The government flamed the company on this very issue when it decided it wouldn't give it the billions it needed to survive.
But more importantly, people who've paid tens of thousands of dollars for a Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep are not pleased. It's Betts' job to face these unhappy customers and fix the problems they bring to him.
Not a single product Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep sells is currently recommended by Consumer Reports, largely because of below average "predicted reliability" as measured by owner surveys. Chrysler brands also rank low in J.D. Power surveys of dependability and usability.
Betts job is to find exactly what's wrong with Chrysler's current crop of products, how to get it fixed and how to make sure future products stand out for the right reasons.
Progress has already been made, he said, and will begin showing up in surveys over the next year or so. The 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee, with its richer interior treatments, is the first Chrysler vehicle to show Betts' influence in a big way. Basically, he's redefining priorities and making sure the designers' work actually makes it into the finished product.
Betts has some experience in this area, having worked for a decade at Toyota (TM) and three years at Nissan. At Nissan he tackled quality glitches by introducing programs similar to the ones he's now put in place at Chrysler.
In 2003, the year before Betts jointed Nissan, Consumer Reports magazine recommended five Nissan models. By 2008, the year after he left, the magazine recommended 11. This year, 14 made the list.
Recommendations for Chrysler vehicles fell from four to zero over that time period, even though it had more models in contention.
Count, measure and track
The basic strategy is to count, measure and log everything, keeping careful track of every problem a customer has with a car and tracing it back to the cause.
It also means keeping careful tabs on every vehicle in development to make sure that cost-cutting, a constant pressure at a company facing bankruptcy, doesn't leave Chrysler products feeling cheap and shoddy, as it has in the past.
Improvements are already showing up on current Chrysler products, Betts said. The results will start showing up in dependability surveys soon, he said, as these improved models are just now flowing into the market.
"We probably fixed a thousand problems last year," Betts said. He quickly corrected that figure to "probably more than a thousand."
In most cases, the fix will be something totally invisible to the end customer. For instance, the interlocking teeth on a plastic clip might not have been long enough, allowing a cable it held in place to vibrate loose and rattle. But, while the customer will never see that change, it could prevent an annoying problem later on.
Many different types of 'quality'
Last year, Betts boasts, Chrysler reduced the rate of warranty claims by 30%. In recent years, the average rate of improvement had been just 2.4%
But that's just one type of quality: Dependability. In Betts view, there are six distinct types of quality and Chrysler needs to do better in all of them:

• <LI _extended="true">Dependability (things not breaking) <LI _extended="true">Perceived quality (how solid and nice the car looks, feels and sounds) <LI _extended="true">Performance quality (how it rides and drives) <LI _extended="true">Regulatory quality (not getting recalled) <LI _extended="true">Service quality (being treated right by the dealer)
• Dissatisfaction (nothing's wrong, customers just don't like the car)

To get to the bottom of all these, Betts surveys Chrysler customers relentlessly, usually by phone. Betts often listens in to the calls himself. Customers are interviewed shortly after they purchase and at intervals over the next few years.
"We had 30,000 interactions last month," he said.
The survey is simple: Would you recommend that someone buy this car from this dealer?
The answer is given on a one-to-ten scale.
"We want them to be "Hell, yeah!" said Betts, butthe people with a score of six or below are the ones that can provide valuable lessons.
"We hope to learn a lot from people with six or below," he said. "Those are detractors."
Detractors are the people who check the bad boxes on surveys and who complain to friends, family and in Internet postings, smearing the brand. For detractors, Betts said, he digs deeper trying to find out exactly where the problem was. The interviews are done over the phone so surveyors get a real sense of whether a customer is just a little annoyed or really ticked off.
When creating new cars and trucks, quantifying everything, including how customers feel about the fit and texture of interior parts, helps quality concerns compete against financial concerns. Financial concerns have always been easy to quantify, said Betts, that's why when a company is in financial trouble, interiors end up looking chintzy. Hard numbers always beat the wishy washy "it just doesn't look as nice."
"The irrational cost target is the arch enemy of the quality department," said Betts.
Now designers can fight back with their own numbers, telling the folks with the business plan that taking out wood trim, for example, or substituting cheaper switches will detract too much from customer value. That's a losing game.
Bridging continents
A partnership with Fiat, which the Treasury Department has said is critical to Chrysler's survival, will create some additional quality challenges. Fiat has gone through itsown quality improvement campaign resulting in better performance for the company in Europe. But European attitudes about quality are different from those in America.
European consumers are more concerned with "perceived quality," how their cars feel and sound, than dependability. They're less bothered than Americans by the occasional glitch or breakdown.
Meanwhile, American consumers resent breakdowns mightily but will put up with some dicey interior parts for a dependable car.
Betts has met with his counterpart at Fiat, who toured some of Chrysler's U.S. plants. The companies are on similar quality improvement paths, he said, but given their different strengths, there are things the two companies can learn from one another.
Cupholders, for instance. Europeans don't understand their need - it's a car, not a bar, they say - but American customers absolutely demand them.
"I don't understand it," he said. "They must not be very thirsty over there."

-99

[scotts]

I have had nothing but problems with my 2002 Dakota Quad that I bought brand new. All of the oil changes and maintenance have been done as per manufacture. I had it to the shop over 30 times for everything from fauly broken brake pads, to a new steering rack that was nothing more than a sticking intermediate shaft. The latest issue is my 2nd faulty ABS sensor. Dodge replaced this once before, and less than 24K, the lights are on and I need a new one. Bottom line is the thing still sucks.

1.8 years (always keep vehicles 8 + years) and this POS can go rot in a land fill somewhere.

[99ways2die]

It's really incredible how many complaints these vehicles generate, on the grand scale.
I know it's a mixed bag of "good vs bad" no matter which manufacturer we poll, but at the end of the day the results come in and thus far they are still very clear. For 10 years I drove/bought nothign but domestics.
I got fed up 3 years ago, and now own Toyotas and a Subaru.....I honestly must say that I never had more fun driving and maintaining (because of having noithing to do) cars/trucks than now with these vehicles.
Sorry; I'd like to drive a Ford pick up again (God knows I had much passion of all I had) or sit behind a wheel of a Chevy "sports car" - no happening.
...and from the looks of it, not for a while, as we (domestics) still push out such unbelievable piles of crap to the market.

I've grown to despise many of our own cars and trucks, really.
When I see how these vehicles behave on the roads it's almost scary sometimes to be next to them. How can people accept such mediocre performace? How can people accept such laughable fit and finish......and let's not even talk about repliability, we all know the story (even though the recent TV ads wants you to believe that import reliability/etc is a "myth").

I'm probably "bashing" our cars again...sorry, I wish I had somethign better to say.
-99

[fisher1630]

Well I sure hope that the domestics are around for a while. Sorry but couldn't picture myself driving a honda or toyota. They are just plain boring cars. They just look like generic people movers, what excitement could someone possibly get from driving one.

[99ways2die]

I assume you talk about the likes of Corollas, Camrys, Accords and Civics?
How different is (or was) it if/when the highways are/were filled with Tauruses, Focuses, Escorts, Luminas/etc?
Every one of these companies is capable of producing the most borring vehicles we've ever seen, no exceptions for the most part.
Funny how those borring imports are/were still more fun to drive ...from the actual driving aspect.

...also, perhaps your definition of "driving excitement" is different than mine, and you may be right: driving my old Fordf F150 sure as hell was "exciting" while taking turns, over speed bumps and pot holes, over 60 MPH just to name a few........."exciting" enough to make me wish I survive the trip.

We can go back and forth all day long, and I'll bet we all will find faults in everyone else's examples-let's not go there.
I do not wish death upon US automakers. I really wish they improve enough to really compete with imports on all fronts. What good is a "good looking (in your opinion) car when it feels like a rattling squirrel trap on wheels and falls apart after a couple of years?!
....boy, the stories I could tell about my sister's Sebring Limited (after 2 years and roughly 50K miles).
For what it's worth...
-99

[Charleston]

Jeep owners are a happy crowd. It has to be in your blood. I buy mine in excellent used condition with aprox. 20K on the odometer. I pay less than 1/2 of what they cost new 2 1/2 years before. Then I buy a 5 year extended warrantee. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

[Shutupandfish]

Originally Posted by Charleston

Jeep owners are a happy crowd. It has to be in your blood. I buy mine in excellent used condition with aprox. 20K on the odometer. I pay less than 1/2 of what they cost new 2 1/2 years before. Then I buy a 5 year extended warrantee. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

Thats what I'm doing when i buy my 2006 Dodge Dakota

[99ways2die]

Originally Posted by Charleston

Jeep owners are a happy crowd.

...so are sheep hearders from southern Wales, but what does this have to do with anything?

Originally Posted by Charleston

... I buy mine in excellent used condition with aprox. 20K on the odometer. I pay less than 1/2 of what they cost new 2 1/2 years before. Then I buy a 5 year extended warrantee. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

You know how I read this?
"I buy vehicles which loose half their value after only 2 years. I have to buy extended warriaties because I want a peace of mind when the car/truck starts breaking down. I feel secure because I overcompensate (literally, in hard cash) for the short commings of an invefior product."

PS:
I love Jeeps; always wanted one in my truck/off-roading days.
-99

[fisher1630]

I think jeep owners are a specific type of person. We don't mind when something small goes like a power steering pump. Go to autozone get a new one for 40 bucks and swap it in. Someone who works on their own jeep is a much happier jeep owner than having to pay ten times that amount to have it fixed by a mechanic. Things do break down on these cars but parts are cheap and readily available. I don't mind the creaks, rattles and squirly steering, it helps to keep you alert.

[metaliczombi]

I bought a 1999 Dakota new in 1998 and after 80,000 miles it fell apart. The drivetrain from the tranny to front pumpkin to the rear pumpkin needed to be rebuilt and I didn't off road, only towed a small boat. I finally got rid of it after 100,000 miles. A co-worker who had basically the same truck had his tranny re-built at about the same time and he didn't even tow a boat just everyday transport. Now I sit in a Tacoma and thankfully nothing more than an oil change and lube after 15000 miles. The paint also started fading off the roof on the Dakota which I've seen is a common problem. I do miss the roar of the V-8 but the V-6 is quicker in the Tacoma.

[BrianBM]

Chrysler is a puzzlement. Ford has made the best strides in quality in the past five years, GM (a bigger ship and harder to turn around) is steadily improving. Chrysler hasn't improved enough to matter, to this point. They gave away 4x4 market to the Japanese and to GM/Hummer, which they'd owned. Go figger.

I wish them well, but I wouldn't buy one.

[TundraKayak]

That's is why I got one of these.....

17k miles and it runs like a dream

[tjc45]

I've got an 07 camry with a major transmission problem. One trip to google and it turns out i have lots of company.

My neighbor just had Honda buy back his 07 Accord because of a transmission problem. And my assistant is in the process of going through the same thing with her 07 Accord.

Yet, Consumer Reports recommends that car in its current issue as a "Best Buy" for 07 used cars. Go figure! Hope those people buying on the strength of CR's recco don't buy one of the buy backs. Some states allow that without disclosure.

By the way, my assistant is 18 months into getting Honda to do the right thing. My neighbor told me it took him well over a year as well, with Honda turning it into an ordeal.

JD Power and other statistical survey companies biggest customer's are the auto companies. Trust those numbers?

[99ways2die]

Trust no one but yourself.
There will be bad apples on any treee, but it's up to you to decide which tree to harvest.

I don't doubt for a sec that you and everyone involved has these problems with Toys/Hondas-they sure ain't perfect. My 06 Subaru has been bulletproof and upkept the company's well regarded liability factor. Yet with the introduction of 08/09 WRXs there are many, many complains of engines dying (or close to it). Do we stop buying Subarus? What about Hondas, Toys....or Fords, GM and Jeeps?
Plenty of people have nothing but good scores to show for the vehicles mentioned in the article, yet statistically speaking these seem to generate way more complaints than others.

It's up to us to decide what we drive and I'm not tryin gto change anyone's mind.....find out for yourself.
I, for one, got sick and tired of problematic/substandard "domestic" vehicles and switched sides. Thus far I'm very satisfied....but who knows, maybe one day it will all change again.
Time will tell.
-99

[Ditch Jigger]

I have 210,000 on my 2002 Grand Cherokee. Outside of a major tranny repair right at the 100,000 mark, it's been extremely reliable. Oh, it had the legendary GC brake rotor problems, which got resolved with aftermarket rotors.

Of course, it has the 4.0 straight 6, the last great American made engine