ORV access route proposals

[derf]

from island free press :

http://www.islandfreepress.org/2008A...esOnSept8.html

[BasicPatrick]

Guys,

Don't put a lot of stock in those "proposals". I am not on that sub-committee but am a member of the Negotiated Rulemaking Federal Advisory Committee. I can;t speak for other members of the committee as we have a rule against that, but I can tell you for sure those are documents are in the middle of a subcommittee's work. The subcommittee still has to whittle down to "not more than three options" and then the whole committee has at it all over again. A lot will most likely change.

The enviros are putting up all kinds of faux proposals they cna not back up with real peer reviewed science and we (REG NEG ACCESS COALITION) are making our case well. We are far from where we will be in the end. BE damn well sure there is a hell of a lot of debate left to be done. They won't take our beaches without a straight up revolution.

Patrick Paquette

MSBA Gov;t Affairs
United mobile Sportfishermen--Executive Director
Recreational Fishing alliance--National Shore Access Program

[derf]

well the way we have been kissed and screwed down there , nothing would surprise me ...

They won't take our beaches without a straight up revolution.

well ya know , maybe , maybe not ....
they have been taking it piece by piece for years ..
a refuge here a washover there ..
it has been whittled away untill there is nothing left ..
just what is left from comprises !!!
efff comprimising !!
kick the freaking park service and the enviros off the beaches and give them back to the people !!

[Steve Coleman]

Like Derf said.

Patrick good luck with the reg neg but the deck is badly stacked against you.

The NPS / DOI publicly supports the orv and access restrictions / prohibitions, and whatever else dow / autoban tell them to do.

I'm afraid the only way to win this will be to get rid of the DOI officials whose policy is being implemented here and replace them with people who understand just WHO the recreation areas are supposed to benefit and WHAT their real charter is. And it comes from the top.

I would like to add my opinion as well, but I'm on my good behavior.

GL,
Steve

[Possum]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

Guys,

Don't put a lot of stock in those "proposals". I am not on that sub-committee but am a member of the Negotiated Rulemaking Federal Advisory Committee. I can;t speak for other members of the committee as we have a rule against that, but I can tell you for sure those are documents are in the middle of a subcommittee's work. The subcommittee still has to whittle down to "not more than three options" and then the whole committee has at it all over again. A lot will most likely change.

The enviros are putting up all kinds of faux proposals they cna not back up with real peer reviewed science and we (REG NEG ACCESS COALITION) are making our case well. We are far from where we will be in the end. BE damn well sure there is a hell of a lot of debate left to be done. They won't take our beaches without a straight up revolution.

Patrick Paquette

MSBA Gov;t Affairs
United mobile Sportfishermen--Executive Director
Recreational Fishing alliance--National Shore Access Program

The enviros' "science" has a flawed premise...that isolating birds from people and vehicles will help them to adapt and survive in a world filled with people and vehicles.
Coastal birds like the Piping Plover have lost 99.9% of their breeding/nesting habitat to development....there is no way that restricting osv and pedestrian access on a few miles of public beach will change this reality.
Steve is right...our parks have been hijacked by folks that are perverting the intended use of public land....and they are using venues and tools like lawsuits, RegNeg and the Consent Decree to accomplish this.
It may be too late for the "straight up revolution", Patrick....it surely is overdue.
There is an old saying...."you are either a part of the problem or a part of the solution". Negotiating and compromising with the enviros may not be the solution. Look at where we have ended up by doing this.

[John M]

how about they maybe concentrate on the ferral cat population? just an idea, I bet they eat most of the birds.

[Possum]

Originally Posted by John M

how about they maybe concentrate on the ferral cat population? just an idea, I bet they eat most of the birds.

Ground nesting birds like Plovers are extremely vulnerable to all predators....not just feral cats.I know that there are a lot of feral cats at OBX..and I'm sure that they destroy nests and eat chicks.But for every cat that is removed, there is a Fox, Osprey, Hawk, Gull, Possum, etc looking for an easy meal.
Nests and chicks are also sitting ducks when a storm hits during their long breeding season.But....
The real problem is that Piping Plovers require habitat suitable for ground nesting.Over the years, they have lost just about all of the kind of nesting habitat that they need to coastal development.Hundreds of miles, and millions of acres of suitable nesting habitat has been lost forever.... converted into condos, boardwalks, amusement parks, marinas, resturants,shops,recreational areas, houses, roads, etc etc etc.
We will never see a robust population of Plovers again if they can't adapt to co-exist with people and alter their breeding behavior.Most of the chicks that fly out of the protected, artificial enviromnments that have been created in our Seashore Parks probably die when they come into contact with the cars and people that they have never been exposed to....

[icatchbigone]

I read 19 chicks survived out of over 200 on Assateague. I guess Autoban will blame me for running them over...

[Possum]

Originally Posted by icatchbigone

I read 19 chicks survived out of over 200 on Assateague. I guess Autoban will blame me for running them over...

What a bummer.We gave up over half of the osv for the whole Summer and got a 10% survival rate? Humph! It might be time for NPS to get a couple of good Eastern Shore Chicken Farmers to help them out.
I wonder how many of the 19 survivors were killed when they left the isolation of the protected "nursery" that was created for them by NPS/DOI and ventured out into the real world.... with no awareness at all of the dangers posed by people and cars
Where did you read about this,ICBO?

[Dogfish Daze]

The count on Hatteras was thirteen nests and three survived. The others fell victim to wave washover and prediators. The true causes of the demise and not pedestrians or ORV's, both of which were denied access to the beach throughout the summer. This is your tax dollars at work, protecting a minimal amount of birds, for no really good reason, while American citizens are denied beach access. Sorry for the rant but its an emotional subject. Plan to make this area home one day soon. Join the fight and write your Senators and Representatives to support Senate Bill 3113 and House Bill 6233. This legislation would return control of Hatteras Island to the NPS and put their previous interim plan back in place, which was a workable compromise. It would eliminate the current consent degree which is limiting beach access to everyone, except the turtles and the birds.

[icatchbigone]

Possum: The Worchester County Times a couple weeks ago had the article on the plovers.
I hope all the critters make it but come-on... Darwin-ism at work here. The foxes kill more than we do. Probably before they hatch!
Rick in ESVA

[Possum]

Originally Posted by icatchbigone

Possum: The Worchester County Times a couple weeks ago had the article on the plovers.
I hope all the critters make it but come-on... Darwin-ism at work here. The foxes kill more than we do. Probably before they hatch!
Rick in ESVA

Thanks ICBO....I found the article and posted it in the DelMarVa forum(Delaware plover thread)...this year's dismal failure of species management at AI
We sacrificed over half of the OSV zone for the whole Summer for no reason.
19 survivors out of at least 400 eggs