we have to challenge the consent decree

[Steve Coleman]

that's what they keep waving in my face.

My email to nps policy arm was answered : "per the consent decree...." etc..

Well it wasn't MY consent decree.

And I don't know anyone who signed off on it who is in our camp. Only the business owners / obpa reps. And all they want to do is sell tshirts and rental cottages.

Whoever signed off is a MORON. Yes that means you "General" Rob. ANd all your Chapa buddies. You all gave it all away. And legally it f'ed it up for all of us.

Call RDT if you want confirmation. They are laying off people. Our friends and fellow fishermen.

Who knows how to challenge this travesty?

Are you telling me that the birdwatcher lawyers are better than anyone we can come up with?

I am sick to my stomach.

Steve Coleman

[zonker]

Steve, I'm sick about it too, but don't blame the negotiators. Judge Boyle made it clear that he was prepared to ban all vehicles from the entire seashore unless a compromise was reached. The settlement preserves access to some decent fishing spots for now, and access should improve as the year goes on and the birds finish their reproductive business. I'm still planning a trip this spring and another this fall.

As to the next steps, the settlement can't be appealled because it isn't a judge's decision. I believe the best way to challenge the situation is to lobby Congress for special legislation assuring vehicle access to the seashore. Judges have to follow laws passed by Congress. This isn't as far-fetched as it may sound. Congress has passed similar laws enabling vehicle access to some of the national parks out west, Yellowstone and/or Yosemite as I recall.

In short, write your Representative and Senators. Encourage your friends to do the same.

Hang in there. This too shall pass. Good people are working on it.

[surffishn]

Steve, I can understand your frustration this deal suxs for sure.But to point fingers at guys that have busted there butts, To stop this is in bad taste.We all have to stick together and fight these Antis.This is about Antifishing in my opinion not birds.The Antis had the Judge with them all the way. It is good to have friends in high places.Yes you are right it has to be fought for.But first it will take cash and a merger of all.From what I understand it is in the works.What it will cost in the end who knows.But I can say this the Antis have the cash cow for sure.I hope you take this post in the right way.I respect your opinions but i do feel now we need to hang together.And get funds to CHAPA, OBPA,NCBBA. I am sure it will be a long drawn out affair.But I am optimistic that it can be changed.Have A great day and get out and catch some fish.Paul Rudar

[C.Salp]

From Frank Folb:

"There is no reason to talk about how we got to where we are today. The battle has been fought to this point by unfair tactics from the environmental special interests groups and by Washington Roll Over DOI with only last minute participation allowed by the intervenors in the court action. The intervenors either had to reject the settlement on the table or do some last minute negotiations with the others at the table. Happy, satisfied or signed without dissent. That did not happen, there was a gun to our head and to preserve any resemblance of a way for the visitor to have any favorable access and the economy to have any chance of surviving the consent decree was signed."

Frank is a good, honest man whom I greatly respect.

[Possum]

Surffishin, CHAPA/OPBA can not fight the consent decree. They are a party to it, and have no legal grounds to oppose it..

Judge Boyle's courtroom is an ugly stain on the American Judicial System. We never had a chance in his cesspool, and we won't have a chance there if we go back.
NPS hung CHAPA out to dry as soon as they got into Boyle's court. Once we walked into Boyle's chamber of horrors, we were beat.
Good and honest men are at a huge disadvantage in an unfair and dishonest setting..
NPS/DOI was in lockstep with ASA/DOW from the gitgo, and by strong arming CHAPA into signing the consent decree, NPS and ASA have accomplished what they both wanted......they have neutralized CHAPA and left OBX surf fishers with no viable organization to oppose restrictions to access.

[C.Salp]

solely for the purpose of reducing confusion .

I believe that by "ASA" you [and a couple of others on the various boards recently] mean Audubon -- based upon the proposition of "Audubon Society of America" -- but I'm fairly sure that they don't refer to themselves as such. A few media references [errantly] do so, but nevertheless the organization appears to consistently refer to itself as "Audubon Naturalist Society" or "National Audubon Society."

In general, the ASA reference would not be a blip worth any any attention, but in this case we have an organization that does refer to itself as ASA -- the American Sportfishing Association -- that is closely involved with the issue at hand.

...hence my somewhat officious reference here, toward the goal of reducing confusion .

- Chris

BTW, I think Erik's post summarizes our plight quite nicely.

[Frank Folb Jr]

I am Frank Folb Jr, I am a MORON!!

STEVE COLEMAN, you sit on your couch and lay blame where ever you feel like you should. YOU ARE A DA and I don't mean district attorney, you are also a stupid sob for your comments above. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!!!?? Not a damn thing.

My choices were simple at the time that I voted to accept the consent decree. You wanna know about them?? Show up at a OBPA meeting we have them every Monday night at 6:30 at the Cape Hatteras Anglers Club here in Buxton. The folks that accepted that piece of crap decree felt like we had a knife at our throats and a gun at or head. We had hoped it would be better than the alternative.

DA your comments make me just as sick as the consent decree.

For those of you who know what is going on. Thanks for your support, We, the CHAPA members truly appreciate it.

Frank Folb Jr
252 996 0760 Always available!

[Frank Folb Jr]

The General, Rob is a friend of mine. We don't always see eye to eye but he is my friend. He is also the friend of everyone that enjoys access on our beaches. He works tirelessly every day for access. Yep, selling t shirts and calendars, getting donations and putting together huge events to help support access.

DA, you put him down, but again I say, I shout!! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!!??

Big party on June 14 at the Fessenden Center here in Buxton. BBQ pig, chicken and bake goods, games and fun for the kids. On donations go to continue the fight for access. We're not done yet!! Beat back for sure but look for new battles in the future. OH YEAH, Thanks Rob for all you have done to put this BBQ event together. Your the man!!

Frank Folb Jr

[Steve Coleman]

Frank I am sorry to have called you a moron in the heat of my post but of course you realize that there are other opinions out there about the signing of the consent decree.

Like you I am upset. If I posted it again I would not word it in such a personal fashion, but I still feel the same about the consent decree.

When that document was signed I lost my spring time drum fishing, my summer time vacation spot, and now there is a legal precedent for what may happen up here on Assateague. I believe that signing it was the worst thing to ever take place in the history of Cape Hatteras.

You don't know what I have done, who I have called and how many emails I have written in support of free and open access but apparently they did not do any good.

Peace,
Steve

[Frank Folb Jr]

Steve I'll accept your apology and and I too apologize for call ing you a DA and a stupid sob. As you did I also did it in the heat of the moment.

Trust me Steve. NOT ONE CHAPA member enjoyed raising their hand to accept that decree. I was the last to raise my hand, Bob Eakes just before me. Our options were bleak. If we did not agree Judge Boil had stated that he was ready to close the beaches indefinitely or until neg reg had been finalized. Our problem was that DOI in DC rolled over. Our lawyers had to fight their way back to the table to get us what we got. But basically when DOI rolled over, the eco terorist with their eco judge at the head of the table had us by the balls.

As for spring drum and summer vacation!! Think what this is doing to my Fathers business and Bob Eakes at RDT. But we had to do what we thought was the lesser of two evils. Am I happy, heck no are we gonna continue to fight, heck yeah. But we need your support, not you back handing us . We are a small group of people that have regular jobs and lives that have and will continue to give our all. We can accept critizism, but what we need is help, all the help we can get.

Peace to you as well,

Frank Folb Jr

[fishdaddy]

Originally Posted by Possum

Surffishin, CHAPA/OPBA can not fight the consent decree. They are a party to it, and have no legal grounds to oppose it..

Judge Boyle's courtroom is an ugly stain on the American Judicial System. We never had a chance in his cesspool, and we won't have a chance there if we go back.
NPS hung CHAPA out to dry as soon as they got into Boyle's court. Once we walked into Boyle's chamber of horrors, we were beat.
Good and honest men are at a huge disadvantage in an unfair and dishonest setting..
NPS/DOI was in lockstep with ASA/DOW from the gitgo, and by strong arming CHAPA into signing the consent decree, NPS and ASA have accomplished what they both wanted......they have neutralized CHAPA and left OBX surf fishers with no viable organization to oppose restrictions to access.

Frank,
Welcome to SOL, sorry about the baptism by fire. As you can tell, this issue in the OBX effects people from all over. I know all of you down there did what you thought was best for everyone and I support your efforts. Possum pretty much hit the nail on the head in his post. I personally know what you all went through and are still going through, I was there for some of it. I have been keeping everyone in De abreast of the unfortunate situations. As for Rob, what can I say, great guy. He has been using all of his contacts and resources to bring this issue to light. My heart goes out to all of you who are suffering financially from this eco-terrorist action. I personally will still make trips to the OBX to support those business's, like your fathers who took alot of time out of thier lives to fight to keep the beaches open for ALL of us. You still have all the support from clubs like DMS, AMSA NCBBA, OBPA, well ****, I could fill the rest of this screen and the next one with clubs who support your efforts. Keep you chin up. I'll see you all soon.

[Frank Folb Jr]

Thanks Fishdaddy for the welcome. again I apologize for coming in guns ablazing. BUT I will not apologize for my passion!!Unfortunately this us the hell I live with daily 24/7 to be exact. But where else can I spend my time. My Mom and Dad, Father in Law and many good friends like the Perry Family and Bob Eakes are all getting hammered by these eco nuts. So it's the least I can do.

The only things I can see about possums post that I think need to be clarified are
1 NOT ASA, that is the American Sportfishing Assoc. who is a huge supporter of our efforts. It is NAS or National Aaudobon society.

2When we talk about NPS and or DOI folks need to be clear. Our local NPS, Mike Murray, is a stand up guy. I, personelly think he hates what is going on as much as we do. Don't get me wrong, our local NPS resource management has a few greenbeans amongst them but even a couple of them aren't bad.
Our fight is with the yellow belly scum in DC. DOI and NPS in DC let us down. The green faction within DOI was instrumenmtal in getting this decree wrapped tight around our necks.

3 neutralized?? They have us against the ropes for sure, but their are others outside the ropes that are scheming!!



We OBPA and the local folks of HI, truly appreciate the support of all the above mentioned groups. And as long as I am on the Board of OBPA I will do all I can to make sure that as the battles rage in your neighborhoods, we will be standing beside you as you have stood beside us!!

God Bless and Tight Lines

Frank Folb Jr

[fishdaddy]

Frank,
Thanks for the reply. You didn't answer 1 question though. Is you father going to hold the F&F Red Drum Tourny this year?

[longcaster]

Frank Senior says if NPS issues a permit for the tourney (including fishing ALL NIGHT) then there will be a tourney. He has submitted the application to NPS.


You fisher-folks from "up there"(north of the VA State line) contribute heavily to our economy "down here"(Outer Banks), thank-you. What has happened here (CONsent decree) is destroying what you have come to love.

We need your support now, more than you think. Your incidental spending monies, bait, ice, snacks, etc (now not spent) could be a great help to OBPA/CHAPA. You can spend that money here, and do it tax free, OBPA is a 501C3 ORG.

The challenge of the CONsent decree is going to cost more than 500K. OPBA needs to hire a full time person to address all the work that needs to be done (letters, phone, fax and coordination of groups). Volunteers can't do enough, plus their jobs earning a living. 500 contributions of $25 would just about pay for for this person.

Help us if you can, you might not come here because of what NAS DOW & SELC was able to inflict on NPS/DOI. But don't stop caring, or think that because we can't talk publicly about our next actions, know that it will cost alot of our hard earned money, sweat & blood. We want this Park back as bad as you do.

What the outcome is here, will affect Assateague & CALO also. Help us win this, those will be easier.

Side note;
At the annual NCBBA Board meeting & picnic, the speaker was Mike Murray. His emotion was very clear, he is truly hurt having to do what the CONsent decree says. He spent much of his youth here with relatives, who lived here. The decision made to not fight the lawsuit/injunction CONsent decree was made in Washington DC. It is with great grief that most of the local NPS has to carry out what the CONsent decree dictates. Mike said he will not retire untill the Park is back under control with a plan that will honor the Founding Documents and the promises spoken by Conrad Worth in the early '50's. Access recreational & commercial fishing and all the other beach uses, can be done along with protecting threatened & endangered species of wildlife, without going to the extreme of the CONsent decree.

The spelling; CONsent decree, is my spelling.

[CHUCK BRYAN]

Jim I thought that maybe REG NEG were holding you hostage. How are you doing.