Frank Folb

[CHUCK BRYAN]

Longcaster what happened today in Manteo that has Frank so upset????
Can you post it here.

[longcaster]

CD was signed by Boyle. NAS DOW & SELC are gleefull. By late June the park will be closed with resource closure and punitive fence movement small tourist resource tresspass. the list goes on. Overall a sh!tY day for all who care for acess. In some ways it seems it would be better to close it all. It would get more attention and be easier to fight.

[John M]

Originally Posted by longcaster

CD was signed by Boyle. NAS DOW & SELC are gleefull. By late June the park will be closed with resource closure and punitive fence movement small tourist resource tresspass. the list goes on. Overall a sh!tY day for all who care for acess. In some ways it seems it would be better to close it all. It would get more attention and be easier to fight.

last time I saw Frank back in March he told me flat out......the best thing is if the close it all tight as a drum. If the close peices of it we will lose it all. I agreed with him then and now it seems ot be coming to fruition.

[Steve in Mass]

I can only imagine the steam coming out of Frank's ears....

I will see him in just over a month, IF he doesn't decide to sell the shop before then....

[derf]

.....the best thing is if the close it all tight as a drum. If the close peices of it we will lose it all.

yup once it is gone it is gone for good !!
we have never gotten anything back that was given up

[CHUCK BRYAN]

It seemed that what ever happened in the REG/Neg had him take the week end off.
I know there have been infractions on the closure spots, but the moderator gave him some crap.
I was hoping you were there Jim to fill us in.

[Steve Coleman]

Frank is a good man.

[John M]

Originally Posted by Steve Coleman

Frank is a good man.

yes he is......

[longcaster]

Here is some of the stuff being said;

You know that I was not happy when I left the courthouse on Wednesday and thought that maybe nopw some headway could be made in the Thursday workgroup session in Manteo or access areas and routes. I have spent many hours since the last Reg Neg ,eeting preparing for the Thursday meeting. Trying to stick to the issue I brought maps of the 8 divisions NPS has available with clear overlays to present a starting place for the group on ideas of routes and areas. I began my position only to be shutdown before showing the first map(Bodie Island spit) by Robert Fisher. Wonder if Derb, Jason or Walker would have been shut down so quick. Bad start to a meeting for me. We break into 3 groups of 6 and began discussing each area of the maps. I was fortunate enough to be able to use my maps in this section.Yes there were disagreements within the 6 but our group seemed to be getting the job done except for some rude interuptions from Mr. Fisher again.
After lunch we re gathered as a full work group with positions and points of agreements and points of non agreements from each group. This is when it got bad for me. I was not lucky enough to be on the smaller group with Sydney because I would have been home much earlier than I was. In the group he and Walker were on suggestions for full closures from ramp 27 to ramp 30 were suggested for pedestrian use ONLY. (BS) In the group with Sydney on board it was suggested that at the 3 spits there would be 12 months no ORV access at OI, HI, OI south for pedestrian areas only.BOOM, my head exploded, THIS IS THE INJUNCTION PICTURES THAT WERE PUT ON THE SCREEN FOR USE TO SEE BY MR MURRAY AND LATER USED BY ME TO EXPLAIN AT THE OPEN PUBLIC MEETING AND ON WEBSITES IN OUR FACE AGAIN, (BS) Yes I let Robert Fisher know that I was upset at the end of the meeting and told him my time and effort had been wasted and I did not know if the maps would be brought to the Neg Reg meeting next week or even if I needed to go either. He asked my to come talk to him in the hall and I said not today the way I feel I going to hell home. That was over 24 hours ago and as you can read my state of mind and attitude has changed very little. My direction now is lost and I hope you folks can help me redirect it by Thursday or Postal I might go.

Frank
This is what set Frank and the rest of the Reg Neg PRO ORV stakeholders off at a sub-committee meeting thursday;

the issue of pedestrian-only closures on Cape Point & at the Inlets. Walker Golder was pushing for such things at yesterday's Reg-Neg workshop.

He asked if anyone had walked the Appalachian Trail as a way of showing that many folks would "love" to walk out to the Point/Inlets or other distant "points of interest".

What he (& others) want is dedicated pedestrian-only areas set aside for the very few idiots that want to hike out & commune with nature.

Of course, he will not get it - but the problem is that this is the sort of thing that is brought up & argued during meetings that clogs up the Reg-Neg process.

The enviros have won their court case, so now they are attempting to bastardize the Reg-Neg so nothing gets done. It's their way of preventing a move to overturn what they accomplished in the court & to further the possibility of Reg-Neg being canned because nothing is being accomplished. They are stonewalling the process by bringing up these issues that they know will not fly & arguing/stonewalling them until the cows come home.

As has been said many times here on this board, the enviros are proceeding with their plan to assure that Hatteras/Ocracoke Islands become another Portsmouth Island.

My take is Walker Golder & Sid Maddox are laying the ground work to throw the next Reg Neg meeting May 8 & 9 into chaos by presenting and sticking to an untenable position. That is why they must be barred from the stakeholder chairs, as punishment for filing and getting the consent decree signed by the Judge.

[t zirkle]

I think we should contact the NPS about the way our representatives were treated. The guy in charge, is from the same bunch they hired to handle the note books what happened to them.

[longcaster]

T Z, workbooks are being compiled by Berger Group, The Reg Neg meetings are being assisted by Consensus Building Institute (CBI). Both Berger & CBI were hired by NPS to do seperate work.

Berger is compiling the data generated by the workbooks, remember only 385 have been submitted, with very few pro bird.

CBI facilitates the Reg Neg meetings. By facilitating the meetings they should not show bias to one side or the other. Their major players are Robert Fischer, Ona Ferguson and Patrick Fields.

[skunk king]

Originally Posted by longcaster

Here is some of the stuff being said;

This is what set Frank and the rest of the Reg Neg PRO ORV stakeholders off at a sub-committee meeting thursday;

the issue of pedestrian-only closures on Cape Point & at the Inlets. Walker Golder was pushing for such things at yesterday's Reg-Neg workshop.

He asked if anyone had walked the Appalachian Trail as a way of showing that many folks would "love" to walk out to the Point/Inlets or other distant "points of interest".

What he (& others) want is dedicated pedestrian-only areas set aside for the very few idiots that want to hike out & commune with nature.

Of course, he will not get it - but the problem is that this is the sort of thing that is brought up & argued during meetings that clogs up the Reg-Neg process.

Why can't we shut them down? If they get off on tangents, isn't there a means to have the subject dropped or discussed at another time? This is meeting moderation 101 stuff, crazy stuff like this goes into the "parking lot". Parking lot items are discussed after all of the agenda is completed and extra time is remaining. If there is no time left, too bad, discuss the issues at a latter time when they are on an agenda. Or play their own game, when they bring this stuff, simply ignore them and talk about the real agenda. If that doesn't work, talk about what you want to or bring continual attention to their distractions and obstructions to process.

And why are these clowns even still on the reg/neg committee? When are they getting kicked off for breaking the rules? I would mention that at every opportunity if it isn't already.

I hope I don't come off as too critical, I realize it's difficult to talk with these idiots without raising the blood pressure and they are a sneaky bunch. And I hope those directly involved don't let these idiots worry you too much so that your health is impaired. But it sounds like the moderators really suck at their job and junior level executives can run better meetings. If the moderators suck, maybe our guys can talk to some of the MBA professors at one of the NC universities for some pointers on negotiations and participating in such processes? It's a game and we're better off having as much training and experience as we can get.

[Pendulauncher]

Originally Posted by Steve Coleman

Frank is a good man.

...and I sure hate to see something like this impacting him. He's been good to tons of people for many years. "Frank 'n Fran's The Fisherman's Friend"

[longcaster]

S K, one of the "stakeholders" is just that "pedestrian access only beach". He has been told, time and again, "go to Pea Island" to no avail.

"Why can't we shut them down? If they get off on tangents, isn't there a means to have the subject dropped or discussed at another time? This is meeting moderation 101 stuff, crazy stuff like this goes into the "parking lot". Parking lot items are discussed after all of the agenda is completed and extra time is remaining. If there is no time left, too bad, discuss the issues at a latter time when they are on an agenda. Or play their own game, when they bring this stuff, simply ignore them and talk about the real agenda. If that doesn't work, talk about what you want to or bring continual attention to their distractions and obstructions to process."

Are you ready; all opinions are valued, one of them might be the key to unlock the deadlock. That is the premise of Reg Neg.

S K, will you be at the Reg Neg Thursday? Will you speak? They have a public comment at noon each day. It would be very good, if there were so many public speakers, that the afternoon session was replaced by the public comment. Warren Judge (Chairman Dare County Commissioners) has promised every student in Dare Co who wants to speak, will be bussed to the meeting and be given credit for the effort. That's just the kids, adults need to show up too. Each speaker will be given 3 minutes, we can drown out the opposition.