Sticking it to the Working Man

[passiton]

I had a local company come in to do some tree work last week. Caterpillars whacked them hard for a few years and they couldn't come back again. I know the owners son (I take him fishing through the school club) and he was pretty generous in his fee. The directions I left him with were to take down all the dead oaks in the yard and just leave them for me from there.

At some point while they were here they hit my neighbors rotten and leaning 15 year old stockade fence with a limb and blew it out. Not a big deal and they immediately offered to replace that section. He also flippped over some wood falling on his property in the woods, so they cut it up and lobbed over the property line.

Two days ago I got a call from the neighbors insurance guy. He's putting in a claim for the stockade fence, a small wire fence that runs off from that (was laready toast from bear damage), and three trees he claims were alive and well on his property. One tree was cut over the property line by mistake, one was on the line, and one 5" tree got damaged by falling wood so they trimmed it back to the ground. Total claim is about 2k. No call to me, no effort to work things out, he just goes right to insurance who will go right after the tree guy.

I've offered to pay for the fencing out of pocet ($150 with installation, less than $100 if I put it up) and a few bucks towards his trees, but I think he's still going after the guys insurance. Anything else I should do for this guy, or for myself?

[Montana_Mac]

Originally Posted by passiton

Anything else I should do for this guy, or for myself?

Not for the tree guy but i have a few suggestion you could do TO the guy next door - oh wait they might not be neighborly.

It is sad to see more and more of this type of behavior by people that are so called neighbors. It use to be you would go out of your way to help your neighbor - now it appears the trend is to go out of your way to put the boots to your neighbor

[livetofish br]

I'd let this work itself out, the fact is that even though he may have been un-neighborly he does have some valid claims. I'd call a mulligan about a rotten stockade fence but if they accidentally cut down one of his trees, hit another and were forced to harvest it, and took down one that was in dispute then they made a mistake or two. Someone should have met with you and tagged the trees to be removed before the work was done. I understand that it was somewhat of a favor but he can't just send over a crew that has no knowledge of the property and tell them to go at it, they need some direction or mistakes are gonna be made, plus they obviously had some issues and hit other property and trees which is on the crew. A 5" tree doesn't come cheap so the neighbor does have a valid gripe. This is what insurance is for so let them deal with it and make sure the kids show reckless abandon towards the neighbor on mischief night for not at least talking to you...

[passiton]

Originally Posted by livetofish br

I'd let this work itself out, the fact is that even though he may have been un-neighborly he does have some valid claims. I'd call a mulligan about a rotten stockade fence but if they accidentally cut down one of his trees, hit another and were forced to harvest it, and took down one that was in dispute then they made a mistake or two. Someone should have met with you and tagged the trees to be removed before the work was done. I understand that it was somewhat of a favor but he can't just send over a crew that has no knowledge of the property and tell them to go at it, they need some direction or mistakes are gonna be made, plus they obviously had some issues and hit other property and trees which is on the crew. A 5" tree doesn't come cheap so the neighbor does have a valid gripe. This is what insurance is for so let them deal with it and make sure the kids show reckless abandon towards the neighbor on mischief night for not at least talking to you...

You have some good points here. They did have direction, but I should have marked the exact trees myself. They only took out dead trees, with the exception of the 5" one that was whacked on accident. I guess the thing that really rubs me wrong is that the guy never came to me with his issues to try to resolve them. I had no idea they took something out on his side of the line. My whole backyard is filled with big downed trunks and you need to climb a rocky hill inot the woods to see what he's griping about. It's basically a crappy shot he's throwing to soak some money up, but I might be stuck on this one.

[longcaster]

Originally Posted by passiton

You have some good points here. They did have direction, but I should have marked the exact trees myself. They only took out dead trees, with the exception of the 5" one that was whacked on accident. I guess the thing that really rubs me wrong is that the guy never came to me with his issues to try to resolve them. I had no idea they took something out on his side of the line. My whole backyard is filled with big downed trunks and you need to climb a rocky hill inot the woods to see what he's griping about. It's basically a crappy shot he's throwing to soak some money up, but I might be stuck on this one.

Did you go to him with your plan first?

[passiton]

Originally Posted by longcaster

Did you go to him with your plan first?

Uh uh. The tree that was cut that was actually on his property wasn't suposed to be touched. I had no reason to talk to the guy.

He's a nutter butter. I haven't spoken with him in 5 years or so and won't really care if he stays mad at me for the rest of eternity. I don't know of anyone else here who has interacted with him either. His family is holed up in thier tiny little yard and they don't seem to care for any of the rest of us.

[Nitro882]

If I am reading your explanation correctly the guy you hired somehow damaged trees that were not on your property. Is that correct?

If so, it is not for you to decide what is or isn't important to your neighbor. (like him or not) I am a contractor and if I damage or disturb someone else's property or dwelling it is on me. End of story. I am a working man. An experienced tree contractor should be well versed in tree ownership and property line disputes. It comes with the territory in that business. A smart contractor would have a copy of the plot plan.

[jbt114]

Go over to talk to him and "trip" on his stoop. Lay there till the ambulance shows up. Wink at him at their loading you into the ambulance...

Chris

[Sawzall]

Originally Posted by jbt114

Go over to talk to him and "trip" on his stoop. Lay there till the ambulance shows up. Wink at him at their loading you into the ambulance...

Chris

Better to trip him on his facts. If he is untruthful about the trees health and that can be proven, his claim will get tossed. Happened to me (not with trees per se), damage was my fault but the guy lied a little to sway the facts more in his favor and ended up with nada.

[passiton]

Originally Posted by Sawzall

Better to trip him on his facts. If he is untruthful about the trees health and that can be proven, his claim will get tossed. Happened to me (not with trees per se), damage was my fault but the guy lied a little to sway the facts more in his favor and ended up with nada.

Good to know, thanks. All of these trees were dead and all of them leaned towards and threatened my house. The guys on the crew mopved a few fee ttoo far in thier cutting because they really thoguht they were doing us both a favor. Still wrong, but well intended.

He also tried to claim they damaged a wire fence in his yard that's been shot for years. Bears tore it up waaaay back and he's saying the tree guys crushed it.

[livetofish br]

The fence is gonna be worth next to nothing, even if it were in perfect shape. The deadwood that they cut that was actually on his property isn't going to be worth much either if it can be shown that it was in fact dead. If the one that they hit and then took down due to damage was alive though, that will be worth at least a couple thousand. The rest of the list is pretty meaningless but a live 5" tree is something worth being upset over and that mistake is squarely on the crew.

[richg]

I'd be interested to see what his homeowners policy states, as many of them do not cover damages to trees, shrubs lawns etc.

Passiton, with regard to the fence, what he is trying to do is an act of insurance fraud. You got a call from the adjuster....what insurance carrier was it? NJ has SEVERE penalties for insurance fraud and this could upend the entire situation. If he signed a proof of loss stating that the tree guys damaged the fence when in fact it was bears years ago, it's time to put the smack down.

[dogboy]

Originally Posted by livetofish br

I'd let this work itself out, ........ if they accidentally cut down one of his trees, hit another and were forced to harvest it, and took down one that was in dispute then they made a mistake or two. Someone should have met with you and tagged the trees to be removed before the work was done. A 5" tree doesn't come cheap so the neighbor does have a valid gripe. This is what insurance is for so let them deal with it and make sure the kids show reckless abandon towards the neighbor on mischief night for not at least talking to you...

i strongly agree with the first statement- let the insurance company figure things out

the scope of work should have been clearly spelled out, as well as the property line

as for the 5" tree- i should think the only value that would be entertained for compensation is the value of the wood contained in the tree unless it was an obvious ornamental planting- a consulting arborist would make that determination (basically a horticulturist or arborist who has taken some classes and has a certificate)- a 5 inch tree probably has about five dollars worth of wood chips in it, if that
if malice aforethought can be demonstrated, highly unlikely in this situation, then you are talking treble damages (for the tree anyway) which is still chicken feed

"industry standard" is a phrase that might pop up when you hire a logging company (versus a tree company)- in the case of the former, don't expect things to be put back in apple pie order (slash cut down to 18" and left where it lays is the norm)

in the case of the latter, in a retail situation, the only evidence that any work was done should be the stumps

BTW- february is usually the best time to have treework done- the ground is usually frozen depending on location, so damage to lawns and whatnot is minimal, plus business is slow so prices are softer

i would stay out of this one- the guy smells a new fence, and you have nothing to gain by raising moral issues

unless they try and claim some crappy looking sapling is worth 5K instead of 5 bucks, that is